Buckweath Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 Are the Rams fans actually saying that Donald this season is better than prime Watt? I don't believe it. Donald wasn't even the best defensive player in the league at the beginning of the season but he has had a great great season. Watt was otherwordly. I don't believe for a second that any non Rams fan would believe that Donald is equal to prime JJ Watt. That man was just out of this world. He wasn't playing the same game as the other players. Watt was twice given an above +100 grade by PFF and namely +111.6 in 2014 and he deserved every single bit of that grade. You Rams fans are a bad case of bias. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaa1025 Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 51 minutes ago, C0LTSFAN4L1F3 said: This is exactly what is wrong with people these days. They just look at statistics in a vacuum as if that means anything whatsoever. No, Mahomes current season is not even close to Marino's 1984 season. Averages in the NFL in 1984: 56.2 CMP % 4.3 TD% 4.1 INT% 7.1 Y/A 76.1 passer rating Averages in the NFL in 2018: 65.2 CMP% 5.0 TD% 2.4 INT% 7.5Y/A 94.4 Passer rating 54 more touchdowns have been thrown in 2018 than in 1984 and there's still 4 weeks of football left in addition to the games tonight. It's insane the difference. There were 4 QBs with a 90+ passer rating that year, this year there's 23. It is obviously easier to throw the ball today than in 84'. We can agree to disagree. Shula's offense would have been great and pretty common place in todays NFL. This gave Marino a huge advantage statistically speaking. Plus, Miami didn't have a running game so he was leaned on way more than other QB's in that era. The reason more QB's have better ratings and there has been an uptick in scoring has everything to do with more offenses being more aggressive and passing more....just like 1984 Miami Dolphins for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C0LTSFAN4L1F3 Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 Just now, jaa1025 said: We can agree to disagree. Shula's offense would have been great and pretty common place in todays NFL. This gave Marino a huge advantage statistically speaking. Plus, Miami didn't have a running game so he was leaned on way more than other QB's in that era. The reason more QB's have better ratings and there has been an uptick in scoring has everything to do with more offenses being more aggressive and passing more....just like 1984 Miami Dolphins for example. The efficiency stats having nothing to do with "passing more", if anything it makes them less efficient because staying efficient over 30 attempts is much easier than over 50 attempts. Oh, and not having a running game also makes it harder to stay efficient, because teams can just play-pass all the time, and not have to worry about the thread of the run. They can use nickel packages, not put 8 in the box, don't have to respect play action etc etc. I don't see how Marino's 84' season isn't drastically better than Mahome's current season. It has everything to do with how the rules have changed, how things are being officiiated, and just being extremely pass-friendly in the modern NFL. Let me put it this way, Marino was 33 points above the league average in passer rating, and Mahomes is only 24 points above the average. Oh, and Marino has far more relatively dominant volume stats too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaa1025 Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 18 minutes ago, C0LTSFAN4L1F3 said: Like I said, if Mahomes and Brees faulter even slightly down the stretch, and Donald keeps doing his thing, I think he is our NFL MVP. I think Donald should be either 3rd or 2nd behind Mahomes now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
game3525 Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 Donald winning MVP would be like Wilson winning it last year IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaa1025 Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 1 minute ago, C0LTSFAN4L1F3 said: The efficiency stats having nothing to do with "passing more", if anything it makes them less efficient because staying efficient over 30 attempts is much easier than over 50 attempts. Oh, and not having a running game also makes it harder to stay efficient, because teams can just play-pass all the time, and not have to worry about the thread of the run. They can use nickel packages, not put 8 in the box, don't have to respect play action etc etc. I don't see how Marino's 84' season isn't drastically better than Mahome's current season. It has everything to do with how the rules have changed, how things are being officiiated, and just being extremely pass-friendly in the modern NFL. Let me put it this way, Marino was 33 points above the league average in passer rating, and Mahomes is only 24 points above the average. Oh, and Marino has far more relatively dominant volume stats too. Scoring is directly linked to passing more. There is no argument against that. Teams are throwing a lot more this year. There has been no rule change this year that has made a dramatic difference in scoring. Refs are rarely calling helmet to helmet and rarely calling roughing the penalty on sacks like they did in the preseason. They have been calling DPI the same for the past decade or so as well. Again, we can agree to disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C0LTSFAN4L1F3 Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 6 minutes ago, jaa1025 said: Scoring is directly linked to passing more. There is no argument against that. Teams are throwing a lot more this year. How is this related to efficiency stats being dramatically up from 84'? Again, if anything, passing in huge volumes usually makes you LESS efficient, not more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BStanRamFan Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 44 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said: How do you figure? EDIT: 2014 is a little convenient, no? Watt in 2012 had more tackles, more TFLs, and more sacks through 12 games. I used the 2014 season because it had the TD's. But alright let's use 2012... 2012 Watt (16 games) 20.5 sacks and 39TFL. *Also had 16 batted balls. Donald will never do this. So hats off. Donald should finish at 20+ sacks, potentially breaking Strahan's record and roughly 24 TFL. Now the number on Watt's side are a little flashier with the TD"s and batted balls, but Donald's splash plays to close out games I would value more than a red zone TD on a trick play. Also, we truly cannot under estimate the 70%+ double teams on every play. It's truly remarkable how he is winning at the LOS. Because of his size and stature, Donald is being held almost every play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MookieMonstah Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 I do think the double team % is inflated due to him getting chip blocks when he plays DE, but its still a crazy impressive number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 33 minutes ago, BStanRamFan said: I used the 2014 season because it had the TD's. But alright let's use 2012... 2012 Watt (16 games) 20.5 sacks and 39TFL. *Also had 16 batted balls. Donald will never do this. So hats off. Donald should finish at 20+ sacks, potentially breaking Strahan's record and roughly 24 TFL. Now the number on Watt's side are a little flashier with the TD"s and batted balls, but Donald's splash plays to close out games I would value more than a red zone TD on a trick play. Also, we truly cannot under estimate the 70%+ double teams on every play. It's truly remarkable how he is winning at the LOS. Because of his size and stature, Donald is being held almost every play. Yeah but you said Donald's stats are better, and that he's better than prime Watt. How do you figure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Ramster Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 1 hour ago, game3525 said: Donald winning MVP would be like Wilson winning it last year IMO. Not really. Best record. But I guess you mean by sheer volume of stats and being a one man army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
game3525 Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 1 minute ago, El ramster said: Not really. Best record. But I guess you mean by sheer volume of stats and being a one man army. Volume of stats while leading a fairly mediocre unit overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BStanRamFan Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 28 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said: Yeah but you said Donald's stats are better, and that he's better than prime Watt. How do you figure? His impact on games are greater given the timeliness of his splash plays, the double teams he commands and beats on a play in and play out basis, and he will have more sacks than prime Watt all from a more disruptive position being on the interior line. That is why I think he is better than Prime Watt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Ramster Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 1 hour ago, MookieMonstah said: I do think the double team % is inflated due to him getting chip blocks when he plays DE, but its still a crazy impressive number. Watch the tape. They’re holding him. This ain’t like a TE or RB chip. These are 2 fat cows. Which makes it way more impressive.. and the scrub who used PFF stats. Donald has the highest grades ever in there.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MookieMonstah Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 1 hour ago, El ramster said: Watch the tape. They’re holding him. This ain’t like a TE or RB chip. These are 2 fat cows. Which makes it way more impressive.. and the scrub who used PFF stats. Donald has the highest grades ever in there.. I’m not disagreeing with any of that. He gets held a lot, like any great pass rusher. I’m saying the double team percentage is boosted because he’s getting chipped by a HB or TE just about any time he lines up at DE. He’d still have an insane number regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.