NFLExpert49 Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 2 minutes ago, Starless said: The word "expert" truly has no meaning anymore. Horrible post. You should really educate yourself: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:U-bkt_nhR-oJ:www.espn.com/nfl/preview09/columns/story%3Fcolumnist%3Dwickersham_seth%26id%3D4443119+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apparition Posted December 12, 2018 Author Share Posted December 12, 2018 1 minute ago, NFLExpert49 said: What talent? Brady, Moss...that's about it. Richard Seymour's best days were behind him Cool. It seems you're super into the idea of dying on this hill. I'll just be over here, watching from a comfortable distance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NFLExpert49 Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 1 minute ago, Starless said: Cool. It seems you're super into the idea of dying on this hill. I'll just be over here, watching from a comfortable distance. If you're not going to bother even attempting to form a cogent argument, why bother replying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apparition Posted December 12, 2018 Author Share Posted December 12, 2018 Just now, NFLExpert49 said: If you're not going to bother even attempting to form a cogent argument, why bother replying? something something pearls before swine something something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NFLExpert49 Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 1 minute ago, Starless said: something something pearls before swine something something You're clearly upset that your whole argument went down the toilet when you learned that Belichick devised (and continues to devise) the Patriots' offensive system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apparition Posted December 12, 2018 Author Share Posted December 12, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 15 minutes ago, NFLExpert49 said: It's Belichick's offense. He doesn't call the plays but it's his system. It's why he let his former coffee boy call the plays after Weis left; everything in that system is laid out in such a way that it's almost impossible to screw it up. Reminder: The Patriots went 11-5 with Matt Cassel in 2008. Reminder: The Patriots started 3-1 without Brady in 2016. Reminder: Belichick is 55-61 without Brady. Reminder: That's a .474 win percentage. Reminder: That's a losing win percentage. Reminder: Belichick made the playoffs once without Brady. Reminder: Belichick made the playoffs 15 times with Brady. Reminder: Belichick has 1 playoff win without Brady Reminder: Belichick has 27 playoff wins with Brady. Reminder: I used Belichick's whole career for data, I didn't cherry pick 1.25 seasons of his career to make a terrible point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 19 hours ago, C0LTSFAN4L1F3 said: I mean, yeah. Great defensive play, whether it be overachieving or playing at the same level you were in the regular season is almost a prerequisite to winning a Superbowl. The fact that the Patriots met that criteria several times and it obviously helped them win these Super Bowls, speaks to Belichick's defensive mind and his importance in all of this. I don't really care what people were saying on this board at the time. They were #1 in points/drive and #1 in PPG. PPG is a team stat, not a defensive stat. Does not account for time of possession, does not account for offensive turnovers, does not account for special teams positioning, does not account for defensive scores. It's not a good or strong measurement of the health of a defense. DVOA is a better stat on the actual strength of the defense. PPG is a better stat for how many points the overall team will let up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NFLExpert49 Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 1 minute ago, lancerman said: Reminder: Belichick is 55-61 without Brady. Reminder: That's a .474 win percentage. Reminder: That's a losing win percentage. Reminder: Belichick made the playoffs once without Brady. Reminder: Belichick made the playoffs 15 times with Brady. Reminder: Belichick has 1 playoff win without Brady Reminder: Belichick has 27 playoff wins with Brady. Reminder: I used Belichick's whole career for data, I didn't cherry pick 1.25 seasons of his career to make a terrible point. Belichick also made the playoffs despite having terrible personnel in Cleveland. Look at that 1994 Browns team and tell me that's a team you would expect to allow the fewest points in the NFL. Of course he's going to be better with Brady. Doesn't diminish his genius. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 29 minutes ago, NFLExpert49 said: Belichick also made the playoffs despite having terrible personnel in Cleveland. Look at that 1994 Browns team and tell me that's a team you would expect to allow the fewest points in the NFL. Of course he's going to be better with Brady. Doesn't diminish his genius. The Browns went to and won a playoff game literally two years before Belichick got there. They went to the playoffs again the year before that. And the year before that. And the year before that. And the year before that. So basically 5 consecutive seasons they went to the playoffs. They won 3 playoff games during that 5 year stretch. They had one bad season. Belichick came in and over the next 5 seasons he could only make the playoffs once and only had one winning season.... And I'm supposed to call that team trash and say they were incapable of that and Belichick pulled off some sort of miracle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C0LTSFAN4L1F3 Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 1 hour ago, lancerman said: PPG is a team stat, not a defensive stat. Does not account for time of possession, does not account for offensive turnovers, does not account for special teams positioning, does not account for defensive scores. It's not a good or strong measurement of the health of a defense. DVOA is a better stat on the actual strength of the defense. PPG is a better stat for how many points the overall team will let up. Sure. To a much lesser extent, it is a "team stat." But clearly it's by far a metric of that defense and they were also #1 in points per drive too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
childofpudding Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 3 hours ago, Uncle Buck said: I've never understood this debate. Can't they BOTH be great? I think they are. Obviously, each one benefits from the efforts of the other. They are BOTH the best ever at what they do. Yep. I don't understand why anyone feels it has to be all (or almost all) one or the other. You don't achieve nearly 20 years of extraordinary success with just one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
childofpudding Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 2 hours ago, NJerseypaint said: Am I the only one that thinks without BB, Brady doesn't win 4 of his 6 SBs (36, 38, 39, 51)? Panthers were a middling offense, but Eagles were top 10, and Rams/Falcons were #1. Sure without Brady, BB isn't winning those games either - so it's a two way street - but it's not like Brady carried BB to six titles. Feel safe in knowing that no one said that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NFLExpert49 Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 2 hours ago, lancerman said: The Browns went to and won a playoff game literally two years before Belichick got there. They went to the playoffs again the year before that. And the year before that. And the year before that. And the year before that. So basically 5 consecutive seasons they went to the playoffs. They won 3 playoff games during that 5 year stretch. They had one bad season. Belichick came in and over the next 5 seasons he could only make the playoffs once and only had one winning season.... And I'm supposed to call that team trash and say they were incapable of that and Belichick pulled off some sort of miracle. Different nucleus. The only really good player left on the team during the Belichick years was Michael Dean Perry. And I guess Clay Matthews, but he was ancient. They went 3-13 the year before he took over, which is the part you're leaving out. That's not just bad, that's #2 overall pick bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rivers Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 if they don't win vs steelers and have a career game, then they could be over the hill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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