Apparition Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 Just as a question of who deserves the most credit for the Patriots' run of success, people are evenly divided. But since 2010 or so, it seems like the numbers should have steered the conversation in Brady's favor. The Pats have won 2 Super Bowls, appeared in 2 others and were on the doorstep three other times in that span, but have not fielded a defense that's ranked in the top-10 in DVOA once in that span (best ranking 12th in 2014 and 2015; average ranking 19th). They have, however, ranked no lower than 6th in offensive DVOA in any of those years, and have been #1 three times. For a head coach who was known as a defensive mastermind for so long, it seems clear that Belichick's reputation deserves to be questioned based on these numbers. Moreover, Belichick has made a number of questionable personnel moves during that span which could be argued to have put the Patriots in a worse position during that span. This is both on the micro level (benching Malcolm Butler during the Super Bowl) and the macro (trading away both Chandler Jones and Jamie Collins for less than market value, giving Aaron Hernandez a big extension, failing to expend significant draft capital on a LB position that's been woefully lacking over the past 3 years). In light of all this, have you changed your thinking at all on the question of who gets the lion's share of credit for the Patriots' success? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leoric Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 No. Credit goes to Belichick. Brady is the goat QB but probably would t have been without Bill. Bill is the GOAT coach and showed he could win with Drew Bledsoe and Matt Cassel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apparition Posted December 9, 2018 Author Share Posted December 9, 2018 Just now, Boltstrikes said: No. Credit goes to Belichick. Brady is the goat QB but probably would t have been without Bill. Bill is the GOAT coach and showed he could win with Drew Bledsoe and Matt Cassel. He went 5-13 with Bledsoe as his starter... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leoric Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 4 minutes ago, Starless said: He went 5-13 with Bledsoe as his starter... And consensus was they were competitive until Bledsoe almost died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apparition Posted December 9, 2018 Author Share Posted December 9, 2018 4 minutes ago, Boltstrikes said: And consensus was they were competitive until Bledsoe almost died. I mean, they averaged 16.4 points per game with Bledsoe as the starter (25 ppg in the games Brady started in 2001). If they were competitive with Bledsoe, it wasn't because the offense was pulling its weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDez Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 Chandler Jones leads the league in sacks since they traded him. That was a blunder considering Malcolm Mitchell hasn’t done much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apparition Posted December 9, 2018 Author Share Posted December 9, 2018 Just now, DirtyDez said: Chandler Jones leads the league in sacks since they traded him. That was a blunder considering Malcolm Mitchell hasn’t done much. Yup. Though in Mitchell's case it was injuries that derailed him after a promising rookie year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBLIII Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 Bill is somehow known as a good defensive coach but his defenses suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seminoles1 Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 31 minutes ago, Boltstrikes said: And consensus was they were competitive until Bledsoe almost died. What? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
childofpudding Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 Median offensive DVOA rank, 2000-2018: 4 Median Brady DVOA rank, 2001-2007, 2008-2018: 4 Median defensive DVOA rank, 2000-2018: 15 Median points scored per drive rank, 2000-2018: 5 Median points allowed per drive rank, 2000-2018: 9 So yeah. Right around 2005 or 2006, the offense started performing better than the defense, and has generally done so since (excepting Cassel's year). A top 10 defense over 20 years is nothing to sneeze at, but a top 5 offense surpasses that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMossIsBoss Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 Will probably always be 50/50 for me. Only way this wold have changed would be if we had seen Brady without BB or vice versa (while we did get some BB without Brady, I'd have like to seen how BB would do as the proven commodity with a very long leash, which he didn't have in Cleveland, not to say he did a bad job in Cleveland but nothing becoming of the GOAT HC). Their legacies are inseparable to me at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKillerNacho Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 50/50 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leoric Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 46 minutes ago, TheKillerNacho said: 50/50 51/49 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elky Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 Let's get one thing clear: Belichick is not a defensive genius. He hasn't had a good defense since 2004. The defense struggles against the crappiest quarterbacks every freaking week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C0LTSFAN4L1F3 Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 2 hours ago, Elky said: Let's get one thing clear: Belichick is not a defensive genius. He hasn't had a good defense since 2004. The defense struggles against the crappiest quarterbacks every freaking week. They were the #1 scoring defense in 16'. I can't help but determine that "hasn't had a good defenses since 2004" is wildly inaccurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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