43M Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 9 minutes ago, CKSteeler said: No. You guys would still end up picking your favorite Tomlins and coming up with convoluted excuses as to why it's not their fault or that we're being too harsh and need to spread that blame around more. Says the clown who makes endless excuses for Ben and attacks anyone who doesnt blame Tomlin for every little thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKSteeler Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 1 minute ago, FourThreeMafia said: Says the clown who makes endless excuses for Ben and attacks anyone who doesnt blame Tomlin for every little thing. I look forward to two years from now when you are finally willing to call for Tomlin's head. It will just have been about 5 years too late. But eventually, you'll be right. I don't make excuses for Ben. I actually don't even know if this version of Ben, the one who loathes taking snaps from under center, running play action, and who has been enabled in his own ways for too long can win it all again. His turnovers over the past few seasons have been just as big of a factor as Tomlin's stupidity in holding the team back, though I personally find it easier to forgive an athlete making a split second decision and a head coach who engages in chronic stupidity. Also, one guy is actually in charge. He's actually only become the turnover machine he is now in the last 2-3 years. You'll never hear me engage in some ludicrous argument about INT % to justify those things. But Roethlisberger is harder to replace than Mike Tomlin. I actually find it kind of sad that a decade into his tenure as a head coach, we're still wondering if he has control over his staff or how much input he has on draft day. His early success did more damage to him than it ever did Roethlisberger, at least in terms of just the football stuff. You people can present whatever strawman version of my arguments you'd like. I'll keep banging my drum here. Tomlin isn't the guy you want as a rebuilt. I think being fired would actually be good for him. Not even joking there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 40 minutes ago, CKSteeler said: look forward to two years from now when you are finally willing to call for Tomlin's head. He and I both said Tomlin should likely be out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 How the hell has Bens turnovers made Tomlin stupid? Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKSteeler Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, warfelg said: How the hell has Bens turnovers made Tomlin stupid? Lol Must have missed it where I said that. You may want to re-read there, buddy. I said Roethlisberger's interceptions were as big of a factor as Tomlin's stupidity. As in, the two were just about equal for me in the reasons why this team has under performed (the last two years, at least). 3 minutes ago, warfelg said: He and I both said Tomlin should likely be out. No you haven't. Saying you wouldn't mind it is not the same as saying he should likely be out. Especially when the majority of your posts are deflecting blame from the guy. For the record - firing Tomlin isn't some magic pill that fixes everything. Other things have to be done right once he's gone. But he's the key cog or problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 Lol I have deflected blame. Rather making sure all parties responsible are held responsible. Heck I think the Rooney’s should sit Tomlin down, tell him we need a new DC but to get that done you have to give up having that much say. Because the way some are saying it on Twitter it sounds like Butler says because Butler let’s Tomlin have say, and Tomlin likes Butler because Butler doesn’t fight back over the having say. So wouldn’t the smart thing to be to get rid of the DC and implement someone that won’t let Tomlin have that much say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKSteeler Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 14 minutes ago, warfelg said: Lol I have deflected blame. Rather making sure all parties responsible are held responsible. Heck I think the Rooney’s should sit Tomlin down, tell him we need a new DC but to get that done you have to give up having that much say. Because the way some are saying it on Twitter it sounds like Butler says because Butler let’s Tomlin have say, and Tomlin likes Butler because Butler doesn’t fight back over the having say. So wouldn’t the smart thing to be to get rid of the DC and implement someone that won’t let Tomlin have that much say? 1. I've said this before, but it wasn't that long ago that you were arguing that Tomlin deserved credit for turning the defense around. I believe it was the Jacksonville game. 2. I don't think anyone anywhere has a scenario in their head where Tomlin gets fired and Butler is retained. I'm of the opinion that if you're firing Tomlin, the whole coaching staff goes. But even if they didn't, I don't think I know of anyone who would argue that the defensive coordinator should retain his job. So, I don't even know why you're pointing this out as if someone envisions a passing of the torch scenario like what happened in 2007 with Cowher to Tomlin. Completely different circumstances, despite the final 8-8 season. 3. If Tomlin actually wants to keep Butler for those reasons, that doesn't speak well of him and his ability to be the leader of this team or franchise in the short or long term. I'm not convinced that actually is Tomlin's logic, though. I've already stated I actually think the defense tends to play above its talent level under the Tomlin-Butler regime, though they've been terrible early in seasons. That's not all on Butler. They've squandered leads in really retarded ways. My main issue is that I believe Tomlin is a guy who is far more comfortable being the head coach of a defensive team (and a veteran team, for that matter - an increasingly rare thing). The talent on the roster hasn't been geared towards that in some time, and for every rare occasion where he accepts his defense doesn't have it and he kicks a surprise onsides or goes for it all on offense there's multiple others where he wastes opportunities. New Orleans being a prime example. His defense had a shot. He was almost vindicated. But it was a poor gamble to begin with. 4. Tomlin is in charge of his staff. He's been here over a decade now. I've already pointed this out, but Cowher had a massive power struggle when things turned downward. It's not a feather in his cap that he's avoided rocking the boat in my view or let upper management dictate to him. Which kind of circles back to one thing I said above - Tomlin would probably benefit from being fired. It could be a learning experience for him. Unlike Cowher, Tomlin won his ring early on and I firmly believe it bred complacency for him and a whole lot of others. Change shouldn't have to be forced on Tomlin. What is it that he says about living in your fears? Tomlin would have a job in 5 minutes if he was fired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
43M Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 Ive said countless times that Tomlin wont be fired, but he shouldnt be extended unless something drastically changes...which is probably wont. Numerous Steeler fans on here, including @warfelg, have agreed with that. None of us think Tomlin is anything special....but we also realize that most head coaches have notable flaws. There is a reason that, even with all of Tomlin's flaws, that there is only ONE head coach during his tenure that has had notable more success than he has had....and it just so happens to be the GOAT head coach....who also happens to have the GOAT QB. Fire Tomlin....dont fire Tomlin....what the **** ever....but at least be realistic and understand that the VAST majority of coaches out there are, AT BEST, lateral moves from Mike Tomlin. That doesnt mean that a fresh mind couldnt help this team (which is why I am open to the change), but chances are the next coach is going to have his own flaws, and the same people hating on Tomlin are going to be hating on the next coach....and the coach after that....and the one after that....unless they are living up to some unrealistic goals held by certain delusional fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VigilantZombie Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 how do you put a user on ignore I love how the mods are just deleting posts they don't want to see but not actually doing anything about people's trolling especially when it's constant on this forum some people shouldn't even be allowed to have memberships here anyway getting back on topic how do you ignore people because I'm going to start handing those out like candy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VigilantZombie Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 I figured it out. For anybody that wants to know you have to go to your own account settings and click on ignored users and add the name. You can choose exactly what you are ignoring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muncher Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 17 hours ago, warfelg said: Lol I have deflected blame. Rather making sure all parties responsible are held responsible. Heck I think the Rooney’s should sit Tomlin down, tell him we need a new DC but to get that done you have to give up having that much say. Because the way some are saying it on Twitter it sounds like Butler says because Butler let’s Tomlin have say, and Tomlin likes Butler because Butler doesn’t fight back over the having say. So wouldn’t the smart thing to be to get rid of the DC and implement someone that won’t let Tomlin have that much say? No, the smart thing would be to get a new HC that doesnt allow the players to run wild and allow the DC to do his job how is a new DC gonna help us win while ben still has a couple years left? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rivers Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 On 2019-01-04 at 7:37 PM, CKSteeler said: I don't make excuses for Ben. I actually don't even know if this version of Ben, the one who loathes taking snaps from under center, running play action, and who has been enabled in his own ways for too long can win it all again. His turnovers over the past few seasons have been just as big of a factor as Tomlin's stupidity in holding the team back, though I personally find it easier to forgive an athlete making a split second decision and a head coach who engages in chronic stupidity. Also, one guy is actually in charge. He's actually only become the turnover machine he is now in the last 2-3 years. Ben has declined yet has been allowed to rule the ship in any manor he decides. Would there be another "winning" coach in the league that would allow his ways ? We are all getting tired of that but lets sign him to a new extension and trade the best WR in the league. Thats the reality, get used to it, as well as adding him to the 5Downs after games. I am now seeing the playing down to competition as ben's legacy as much as it is tomlins. One would have to leave for us to really find out, what a terribly legacy losing to the really bad teams more than anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKSteeler Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 8 hours ago, 3rivers said: Ben has declined yet has been allowed to rule the ship in any manor he decides. Would there be another "winning" coach in the league that would allow his ways ? We are all getting tired of that but lets sign him to a new extension and trade the best WR in the league. Thats the reality, get used to it, as well as adding him to the 5Downs after games. I am now seeing the playing down to competition as ben's legacy as much as it is tomlins. One would have to leave for us to really find out, what a terribly legacy losing to the really bad teams more than anyone. This isn't a Ben vs. Brown thing to begin with. Brown quit on his team. What he did is the cardinal sin of team sports. Terrell Owens didn't do that and he was crucified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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