Post Sachi; What has been the biggest move for turning the browns around?

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

14 minutes ago, roger murdock said:

As a downside I meant the common argument was 'Darnold will be better at 24 than Baker is now'. Not like the Weeden argument when people said half his career is already over.

Yeah, this.

Age is relevant when it comes to developmental level at the time of drafting, not longevity in the league.

[roger murdock]

10 minutes ago, freakygeniuskid said:

Most of Allen's year one value was running the ball and bombs. Those are like the two things on a football field he is good at. Rosen was in an offense that literally made it impossible for him to show off what he is good at (rhythm, system passing, precise placement and accuracy). Put it this way, if Belichick could trade for one of these guys at equal cost, who would you think it would be? I think, in a well built team system tailored to their strengths, Rosen's realistic expectation is actually way better than Allen's.

Now, maybe Allen becomes the first QB in history to be horrible in college and great in the NFL (specifically in regards to accuracy). But even with the terrible year one, I'd still much rather gamble on Rosen.

This right here is why Rosen sucks. Hes not good at placement and accuracy and thats what his games supposed to be. Who do I think BB would trade for? I'm not sure, but if hes chomping at the bits to get Rosen he will have his chance cause the first team that took him is ready to quit on him already.

Josh Allen was a better college player than Rosen was. The excuses you are making for Rosen in the NFL are the same excuses you can make for Allen (but with much more credence) in college cause that team was dog crap wrapped in horse crap. That team lost to a 1-11 team without him playing. Rosens completion % in college was barely better than Allens despite Allen having a historically bad pressure rate of over 40%.

[Thomas5737]

3 minutes ago, freakygeniuskid said:

It's true. I'm not arguing Sashi > Dorsey. That's a purely hypothetical play. We can never know for sure. 

We don't know if Dorsey could have added future valuable resources like Sashi did and we don't know if Sashi would have drafted Baker (and his other moves) so I'm glad we started with Sashi and that we have the Dorse now. Maybe we'd have been just as good with Sashi but it isn't a gamble I'd be willing to go back in time and make, same with getting Dorsey earlier (not that he was available).

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

2 minutes ago, roger murdock said:

Josh Allen was a better college player than Rosen was. 

Lol 😂 stop.

[Thomas5737]

3 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Yeah, this.

Age is relevant when it comes to developmental level at the time of drafting, not longevity in the league.

To a degree. It is rare to come in looking bad and become good. It happens but not as often as looking good and staying good. QB is a much easier position in the NFL than it used to be with the rules so you should at least look decent out of the gate. No one would trade Baker for Darnold right now, many more question marks for Darnold. Maybe he takes a huge leap but no one would take that gamble, they shouldn't from college to the pros either, at least not at the top of the draft. Give me the surer thing or I'll draft a project later.

I had Darnold just behind Baker so it wasn't like they were on different tiers at that point but they are now.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

Just now, Thomas5737 said:

To a degree. It is rare to come in looking bad and become good. It happens but not as often as looking good and staying good. QB is a much easier position in the NFL than it used to be with the rules so you should at least look decent out of the gate. No one would trade Baker for Darnold right now, many more question marks for Darnold. Maybe he takes a huge leap but no one would take that gamble, they shouldn't from college to the pros either, at least not at the top of the draft. Give me the surer thing or I'll draft a project later.

I had Darnold just behind Baker so it wasn't like they were on different tiers at that point but they are now.

I had Darnold 1a, Baker 1b and would have been thrilled with either as the first pick at the time.

Right now I wouldn’t trade Baker for anyone except perhaps Mahomes.

[roger murdock]

8 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Lol 😂 stop.

Rosen was a slightly better passer in college and Allen was a god as a runner.

 

You'd think Rosen was some god of a passer but he was 60% passer, with decent yards/attempt and lots of turnovers who never won many games.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

1 minute ago, roger murdock said:

Rosen was a slightly better passer in college and Allen was a god as a runner.

Idgaf about running abilty, the good qb’s win with their arms.

1 minute ago, roger murdock said:

You'd think Rosen was some god of a passer but he was 60% passer, with decent yards/attempt and lots of turnovers who never won many games.

He also played in a “pro style offense” (whatever that means anymore, but he wasn’t throwing a bunch of screens and the like) and played at a basketball school.

Allen did less in every statistical category against weaker competition and is a year older.

If you prefer Allen, fine, but he wasn’t a better college player by pretty much any objective measurement save rushing the ball.

[Don Roshi]

53 minutes ago, freakygeniuskid said:

Hard disagree. Baker is driving this reemergence. Dorsey could assemble a solid supporting cast, but with Tyrod or Allen at the helm, you think Odell wants to end up here? Baloney.

Dorsey was important, for sure. But we have no evidence that something like this isn't what the old FO was aiming for. Hell, we have numerous interviews that say this was their EXACT plan (go all in on both picks and FA in years 3-4 with a rookie QB in their competition window.)

If you give me Mayfield and the Sashi FO vs. Josh Allen and the Dorsey FO, I know which one I'm taking and it is the Baker side of the equation 10/10.

 

Exactly. Dorsey has more say than Sashi ever did. That is huge. It doesn't matter what the old FO wanted, they hired Hue when none of them wanted him. That shows no backbone, and when Sashi did stand up for his team he got fired.

With or without Mayfield, with Sashi and no Dorsey, we would be a ticking time bomb. Haslem would have a say in everything, and we would continue to make stupid decisions. There would be more infighting. We may have one or two good seasons, but nothing sustainable.

It would be Mayfield and Haslem interference vs. someone who actually has the ability to get his own way who knows what he's doing.

Obviously we've got the best of both worlds, which is a good thing.

[Don Roshi]

Who's to say that Sashi could get the go ahead to take Mayfield at no.1?

QBs an important position that Haslem would have wanted to have a say in it.

[Kiwibrown]

3 minutes ago, Don Roshi said:

Who's to say that Sashi could get the go ahead to take Mayfield at no.1?

QBs an important position that Haslem would have wanted to have a say in it.

Hr would gone darnold or Baker and both are pretty good imo

[bruceb]

Just now, Kiwibrown said:

Hr would gone darnold or Baker and both are pretty good imo

The Haslams did seem mighty cordial with Darnold's parents at this pro day.

[Don Roshi]

Just now, Kiwibrown said:

Hr would gone darnold or Baker and both are pretty good imo

So Baker isn't so important if you could just take someone else then?

Darnold and infighting compared to Baker and everyone on the same page? Hmm.

[Kiwibrown]

5 minutes ago, Don Roshi said:

So Baker isn't so important if you could just take someone else then?

Darnold and infighting compared to Baker and everyone on the same page? Hmm.

QBs I think could be a part of a turn around cleveland; Baker, darnold, mahomes,?Watson. 

Baker might be better or worse or in the middle of that pack, they will all be stuffs imo, I'm lowest on Watson. 

[Don Roshi]

Just now, Kiwibrown said:

QBs I think could be a part of a turn around cleveland; Baker, darnold, mahomes,?Watson. 

Baker might be better or worse or in the middle of that pack, they will all be stuffs imo, I'm lowest on Watson. 

Well Dorsey managed to grab two of them. Not bad.

I'm more than happy with Baker and certainly wouldn't prefer Darnold/Watson after everything Baker's done, both on and off the field.