2020 NFL Draft Thread

[BayRaider]

I don’t know if I’d call him a “girl” but Henderson takes wrong angles on purpose to avoid tackling, and has been called out for it multiple times. 

[jimkelly02]

7 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

Terrell is basically a better Mullen according to several people. I don’t agree, I think Mullen’s Hips/Fluidly/Technique is better than Terrell. But they are similar corners, very similar. And DJ, who probably knows Mayocks scouting tendencies better than anyone, says Terrell is probably Mayocks favorite corner outside Okudah. 
 

We’ll find out come draft day. 

I think A.J. Terrell is the Rates highest CB Outside of Okudah.  
I think he’s a slight step down from Mullen but are similiar

Ideally, it’d be nice to trade back from 19 or up from 80 and get Terrell around 35-50

[jimkelly02]

54 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

Henderson was nursing a knee injury throughout the season. 2018 tape he was much more competitive and physical. Should he have risked his health and draft position to play in a bowl game? 

Henderson is clearly the second best CB in the class behind Okudah. And realistically can start from day one. The two biggest knocks on him have been physicality/tackling. He came into the combine at 205 and was the leader in bench reps plus looked the smoothest in all of the on field drills. He's the only CB we can get after Okudah that I'd feel confident going into the season as a day one starter, his coverage skills are that good. 

I wish Henderson was a solution to our CB needs.  I’d love to walk away from round 1 with a WR and CB.  But I watched several YouTube games of Henderson recently and I was sickened by his tackling and run support.  He doesn’t just miss tackles.  He’s unwilling to get off blocks and engage a ball carrier after a teammate has attempted to tackle him and he’s close by.  It’s not just poor form or leg injuries.  He has zero desire to be physical and I’m not just talking last year.  I wish he was the solution to our CB needs but I’d be sooooo nervous to draft him because he tackles like a little girl.  It’s That bad.

[jimkelly02]

11 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

I don’t know if I’d call him a “girl” but Henderson takes wrong angles on purpose to avoid tackling, and has been called out for it multiple times. 

I’m calling him a girl.  But your right he literally avoids contact.  It’s literally embarrassing.  Only time I’ve seen him hit someone is a QB on a blitz or a few times he can flying in on a run blitz and literally lowered his head and dove.

[MrOaktown_56]

You guys are overthinking Derrick Brown as a pass rusher. He's very developed there already and just getting better. I'll jump for joy if we take him at 12.

From TDN: 

" How many guys at this size do you know that can ****** an OT and dip to run the edge? He can. Impressive power in his hump move to work back across face and his rip/dip provides urgency to push through on a linear attack to the quarterback. Diverse and well developed here."

I agree, he uses a ton of different moves. Swim, rip, hump, shows the ability to dip, etc. He has counters, which is rare for a college player. And of course, he is an immovable object against the run.

He's not a nose tackle. He's a 3 technique in a nose tackles body in the best way possible.

Also I don't see why it's a bad thing to begin as an elite run defender. Remember how quinnen williams manhandled our OL and ruined our plan of attack? 

[MrOaktown_56]

Kinlaw is a very different player, but it's hard to argue that Kinlaw has a higher upside, given that Brown is bigger and stronger. Sure Kinlaw is longer, but there's no guarantee that length inside will translate to better pass rushing. Look at Donald. He's a midget for a DT, but is unstoppable.

[BayRaider]

1 minute ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

You guys are overthinking Derrick Brown as a pass rusher. He's very developed there already and just getting better. I'll jump for joy if we take him at 12.

From TDN: 

" How many guys at this size do you know that can ****** an OT and dip to run the edge? He can. Impressive power in his hump move to work back across face and his rip/dip provides urgency to push through on a linear attack to the quarterback. Diverse and well developed here."

I agree, he uses a ton of different moves. Swim, rip, hump, shows the ability to dip, etc. He has counters, which is rare for a college player. And of course, he is an immovable object against the run.

He's not a nose tackle. He's a 3 technique in a nose tackles body in the best way possible.

Also I don't see why it's a bad thing to begin as an elite run defender. Remember how quinnen williams manhandled our OL and ruined our plan of attack? 

Agree here. I almost feel some FO is pushing him down through media connections due to his 3cone. 
 

Brown at 12 would still be a no brainer for me. 
 

You and I seem to have similar everything on this draft. Although I wouldn’t take Lamb over Ruggs. 

[jimkelly02]

37 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

The one thing that makes me feel better is that he displayed he can gain weight and still be extremely explosive and that he was the strongest CB at the combine. 

Henderson’s coverage is worth a top 15 pick.  But do you really want a CB that purposefully stays engaged in a block and jogs around a ball carrier who is already being tackled but fighting to get away?

if Henderson had any desire to tackle I’d be begging for him at 19.  But his tackling and desire to tackle is sooooo bad and dates back soooo long I couldn’t ever endorse drafting him.  I don’t expect a monster tackler but what he does literally is a disqualified to me. 

[NYRaider]

Just now, jimkelly02 said:

Henderson’s coverage is worth a top 15 pick.  But do you really want a CB that purposefully stays engaged in a block and jogs around a ball carrier who is already being tackled but fighting to get away?

if Henderson had any desire to tackle I’d be begging for him at 19.  But his tackling and desire to tackle is sooooo bad and dates back soooo long I couldn’t ever endorse drafting him.  I don’t expect a monster tackler but what he does literally is a disqualified to me. 

It's something that can be improved upon. He gained weight and strength after the season. His coverage skills are CB#1 level. 

[jimkelly02]

2 hours ago, CaliforniaKid7 said:

I think pick 92 is a great place to take the best RB available. 
 

Our first 4 picks need to go to defense/WR imo. After filling those picks I’d spend a pick on a RB but no sooner imo. 

It’s #91 but yes a RB there would be nice especially If for some reason Cam Akers is available.

In looking at RBs I see two options:

get a big, tough pounder like A.J. Dillon to run between tackles 

or get a back with size but not huge, has speed.... someone who can interchange with Jacobs.  This way the same plays can be called no matter who is in the game.  
 

personally, I’d like an interchangeable RB but only by a slight margin 

[BayRaider]

1 minute ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

Kinlaw is a very different player, but it's hard to argue that Kinlaw has a higher upside, given that Brown is bigger and stronger. Sure Kinlaw is longer, but there's no guarantee that length inside will translate to better pass rushing. Look at Donald. He's a midget for a DT, but is unstoppable.

The more compact DTs work better as a 3T. Donald, Atkins, Rankins, to name a few. 
 

This Frame, Furious Bullrush, and Lightning Quickstep seem to be the three key ingredients to be a 3T. Technique can come later. 
 

Ross Blacklock will follow the fold and the next great 3T in the NFL imo. He has all of this. 
 

Brown, however, I see playing a variety of techniques. With his power and technique, I see him being an absolute force. My comp for Brown is Suh. I don’t think he’ll be quite as good as Suh, but very similar player/force. And the complete opposite 360 personality. Brown is the best character in the entire draft. 

[jimkelly02]

4 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

It's something that can be improved upon. He gained weight and strength after the season. His coverage skills are CB#1 level. 

Tackling certainly be improved.  That’s one reason I don’t discount Delpit.

however, and I understand this is purely a personal opinion, Henderson lacks the desire to tackle or hit.  You can’t change that.  If a guy isn’t breaking down correctly it can be from injury or technique.  But countless and I mean countless times I’ve seen Henderson literally TRY, and I’m dead serious, he tries to not hit.  
 

how are you going to change a man’s whole mental mindset?  Are we going to send him to boot camp? Lol. 

[MrOaktown_56]

I like the Akiem Hicks comparison for Derrick Brown. Look at how Mack benefited from Hicks. Night and day...

[MrOaktown_56]

Disclaimer: I like Kinlaw a lot, but he's more boom/bust and I don't think we'll take him at 12 or 19 for better or worse based on info circulating out there which I trust.

[jimkelly02]

4 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

Ross Blacklock will follow the fold and the next great 3T in the NFL imo. 

I was a big supporter of Blacklock back when he wasn’t on people’s radars but that’s quite a hyperbole.  “Great” is like top 5 at your position.  Blacklock has the potential to be a very good starter but “great” seems very hyperbolic.  Especially for a guy who loves “exact” definitions.