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Joe Staley Signs Two Year Extension

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Everyone here is overrating Nolan's personnel decision making authority. Everyone forgets that Scott McCloughan was here from 2005-2010. That man has a proven track record over multiple franchises. I give him the credit on finding guys like willis, bowman, staley, etc. Its too bad he liked alcohol (and hookers?) because he is still one of the best FO guys in the game. 

If nolan was such a great talent evaluator, he would have been better at scouting his own team and playing the right guys. I cant remember any specific examples off the top of my head, but I remember a lot of us wanted certain (younger) players to get more playing time over (older) players who weren't producing. He was also terrible at self scouting and adjusting his scheme to fit players. He was very stubborn. 

If nolan was such a great talent evaluator, he would have ended up in scouting rather than being a linebackers coach in New Orleans after two failed stints as a DC.

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Posted (edited)
41 minutes ago, N4L said:

Everyone here is overrating Nolan's personnel decision making authority. Everyone forgets that Scott McCloughan was here from 2005-2010. That man has a proven track record over multiple franchises. I give him the credit on finding guys like willis, bowman, staley, etc. Its too bad he liked alcohol (and hookers?) because he is still one of the best FO guys in the game. 

If nolan was such a great talent evaluator, he would have been better at scouting his own team and playing the right guys. I cant remember any specific examples off the top of my head, but I remember a lot of us wanted certain (younger) players to get more playing time over (older) players who weren't producing. He was also terrible at self scouting and adjusting his scheme to fit players. He was very stubborn. 

If nolan was such a great talent evaluator, he would have ended up in scouting rather than being a linebackers coach in New Orleans after two failed stints as a DC.

I say you're way off here. Nolan held GM duties until the end of the 2007 season, in which Scotty Mac was promoted to GM in 2008 and went on the draft Kentwan Balmer with his first pick...a guy who was out of the league in 3 years time.

https://www.pressdemocrat.com/news/2168945-181/staying-the-course-nolan-still

 

Nolan had final say over ALL personnel matters from 2005-2007. That's three entire drafts he made the call on each pick and free agent signings. You say Nolan was overrated, I say McCloughlan was HIGHLY overrated. He's a great behind the scenes guy, when he's doesn't have the final say. His time in Seattle was with Schneider running the show and having the final say. But when he has been given the keys, he has been awful. Look at his draft history as a GM. Aside being gifted Crabtree in 2009 by Al Davis, who has he drafted that would be a high-level starter? Maybe Scherff? He is the epitome of being lauded by assocation. 

Edited by 757-NINER

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@757-NINER which is more likely?  

That a one time HC, who only got the job because he had Hall of Fame players on Baltimores defense, who also had two additional failed stints as a defensive coordinator, who is now coaching linebackers - a guy who outside of his time here has never been a GM, nor worked in any other front office, was responsible for our draft day success

OR 

A highly regarded, long time scout, who was only fired because he was an alcoholic who slept with his secretary or something, who then went on to two other franchises (seattle, Washington), both of which had immediate draft success, who now runs his own scouting company that a lot of teams pay money to have access to, was the real architect of our drafts? 

It's obviously the second option. I'm sure Nolan played a part in the whole thing, but if he was truly a great GM like everyone insinuated on page 1 (and previously) then Nolan wouldn't have lost his GM responsibilities, and it would be more than likely that he would have stumbled into a front office position somewhere, considering he has been fired twice since he left here. 

While it's hard (impossible) to know who is responsible for what, I don't think it's a coincidence that Seattle really started to hit homeruns when he got there, even though he wasn't GM. Then he had to resign again because of his drinking. Then Washington hired him as their GM. I think the fact he could get another GM job after resigning twice due to alcohol should show you how highly he is regarded around the league, it's not for no reason. 

The browns killed it in the draft last year when they hired his company. Denzel ward and baker were phenomenal picks and it's pretty well known that baker was Scotty's guy, and that ward over Chubb was at his direction as well. 

 

... Never thought I'd argue so much in a Joe Staley extension thread lol 

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Posted (edited)
On 6/8/2019 at 3:51 AM, N4L said:

@757-NINER which is more likely?  

That a one time HC, who only got the job because he had Hall of Fame players on Baltimores defense, who also had two additional failed stints as a defensive coordinator, who is now coaching linebackers - a guy who outside of his time here has never been a GM, nor worked in any other front office, was responsible for our draft day success

OR 

A highly regarded, long time scout, who was only fired because he was an alcoholic who slept with his secretary or something, who then went on to two other franchises (seattle, Washington), both of which had immediate draft success, who now runs his own scouting company that a lot of teams pay money to have access to, was the real architect of our drafts? 

It's obviously the second option. I'm sure Nolan played a part in the whole thing, but if he was truly a great GM like everyone insinuated on page 1 (and previously) then Nolan wouldn't have lost his GM responsibilities, and it would be more than likely that he would have stumbled into a front office position somewhere, considering he has been fired twice since he left here. 

While it's hard (impossible) to know who is responsible for what, I don't think it's a coincidence that Seattle really started to hit homeruns when he got there, even though he wasn't GM. Then he had to resign again because of his drinking. Then Washington hired him as their GM. I think the fact he could get another GM job after resigning twice due to alcohol should show you how highly he is regarded around the league, it's not for no reason. 

The browns killed it in the draft last year when they hired his company. Denzel ward and baker were phenomenal picks and it's pretty well known that baker was Scotty's guy, and that ward over Chubb was at his direction as well. 

 

... Never thought I'd argue so much in a Joe Staley extension thread lol 

One of the main stipulations that went into Nolan accepting the job here revolved around him having control of the roster and all personnel decisions. If you recall at the time, this was one of the least desirable job openings. John York was considered a brother-in-law, disguised as a owner, who took control of a once proud franchise and ultimately ran it into the ground. Nolan understood just how dire the talent was on our roster at the time and the incredible clusterf*#k that was the previous front office. He was very adamant about making all personnel decisions.

A first time HC is no different than a first time GM. Nolan was raised around the game though. His father was a coach and he grew up in and around football from a very young age, much like Kyle. You can say its highly unlikely but it would be no different if Kyle was granted GM duties when he was hired here. We already attribute much of the offensive players we draft to Kyle's influence and eye for talent on that side of the ball correct? Im sure he would have had someone like a Adam Peters in the front office to lean on, much like Nolan did Scotty Mac. But when you have final say over ALL personnel decisions, ultimately you get the credit. No one here is blaming Peters and Mayhew for our roster management, or the lack thereof. All the heat is on Lynch, whom most assume as a first time GM, is leaning heavily on both of those guys in the decision-making process. Nolan was forced to give up his GM duties because he was underachieving as a HC, period. He needed to focus on just coaching team because all the talent in the world doesn't mean a thing if you're losing on Sundays.

Scotty could have been campaigning for signing another DE instead of Justin Smith. He could have be in favor of addressing DE and taking Adam Carriker over Willis. THESE are the decisions that having final say allows you to make. And I'm not as confident as you are, that it was Mac behind those moves. If it were, something tells me his GM stints would have resulted in far more talent acquired in both instances. 

I'm positive Scotty Mac definitely had influence on Nolan. I think he is a keen talent evaluator. Its probably the sole reason he has lasted this long around league circles, amist his personal problems. But as I have stated, some guys work best, behind the scenes, giving their input and knowledge but not running the show. Its more to it than just spotting talent. If that were the case, his GM stints would have been far more successful. You have your suspicions and I have mine. But at the end of the day, since Nolan relinquish his personnel duties, aside from Baalke having a pretty good haul in 2011, this franchise hasn't acquire that level of talent, consecutively since. I don't think its a coincidence, nor an outliner personally.

As far as Nolan being hired as a GM, I think that's ultimately a personal choice. I think he views himself as a coach, not a FO person. He did what he thought was necessary at the time, to turn this franchise around and I give him ultimate credit for getting the ball rolling. Now I do feel if he chose to go that route and was in the position solely, he most definitely could be a top notch GM/Team President. He definitely help built a pretty good roster in his time here. He just couldn't coach it well enough to maximize said talent.

 

Edited by 757-NINER

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On 6/7/2019 at 6:08 PM, gridirongorilla said:

Rollin' with Nolan. *shudder*

That's family secret we don't talk about anymore...lol

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Congrats to Staley. Wether or not he gets into the hall, he is a ring of honor member. That was a high risk pick when we picked him and it was a definite homerun.

Nolan might have had final say on the roster but McCloughan was draft architect as far as I know and he calls Frank Gore his best ever pick... I mean we can argue all day about who gets the credit but as it is with everything it is a collaboration I would assume as most things like this are. 

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