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armsteeld

How do you guys/gals feel about the draft?

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48 minutes ago, muncher said:

drafting johnson really made no sense

juju and a really high pick at wr last year with the addition of moncrief should have been sufficient for your receiving corp

If they believe Johnson is the next AB, then it’s not. Also, let’s not pretend like Washington and Moncrief are the answers. I expect them to do well but they are far from locks.

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On 6/22/2019 at 11:26 PM, armsteeld said:

Its been awhile. Hopefully y'all been ok. How did the draft leave you feeling?

Welcome back.  Hanging in there considering this is the worse time of year for me. With no NFL or NBA games, it is tough trying to fill that void with free agency and the off the field stuff.   I like the fact the team was aggressive and took the player that they coveted. On the other hand, I feel they also ignored some glaring holes early like Edge depth and TE.  I am more happy to have the drama gone and getting back to a more classical Steelers brand of football players.

On 6/22/2019 at 11:26 PM, armsteeld said:

Devin Bush wasn't my first selection for ILB but I''ll take him. He's not as powerful as Devin White but is a better blitzer. Barring injury, he's a Rookie of the Year candidate.

He really began to climb up the boards after the Combine and the interview process.  He was a better athlete than they thought and from the neck up, really seems to have it going for himself.  I can't argue the pick or what they gave up to get him.  I would have loved more or better compensation from the AB trade, but that may prove us lucky to have gotten that with the way he has seemed to change. Very sad for me as I am an AB fan, and am very disappointed with how all of this turned out. That said, Bush is high character, high class and a tremendous athlete.  Hopefully that translates into something special on the field for years to come. I had a better draft grade on Bush than I did Shazier.

On 6/22/2019 at 11:26 PM, armsteeld said:

Diontae Johnson is someone I didn't think would be taken in so early. Excellent route runner but has lazy routes, bad concentration drops, but he competes hard. I can see him being WR3 all season long.

Not a popular or sexy pick, but one three years from now we may love.  He is an AB clone in terms of size, quickness, explosiveness and style. Prayerfully not in terms of drama.   Hopefully he can inject some life in punt returns and do some dual PR's with Switzer year one.  I fully expect for Washington to improve and I believe that Moncrief will be a pleasant surprise at WR opposite Ju Ju.  That said, Dionte can transistion to the NFL, learn and develop year one.

On 6/22/2019 at 11:26 PM, armsteeld said:

Justin Layne was a horrible pick for me. He has length and speed but change of direction is horrible to me. ANY inside breaking route leaves him trailing by a step or two. Defends outside releasing vertical routes well. Willing tackler. Lack of turnovers was another turnoff for me. 

A bit more polished than B. Allen, was coming out, but a similar player. I actually like what Allen can become. Although it is put up or get out this year for him.  Layne will take a year or two to develop, but hopefully can see time as Gunner and in some Big Nickel or Dime situations on the outside.  Having big,physical CB's who can tackle and hit has always been a Steelers staple at the position.  We just hope that with the league evolving into a more pass happy league, he can actually cover as well. Time will tell, but not a horrible pick to me.

On 6/22/2019 at 11:26 PM, armsteeld said:

Benny Snell lacks long speed but has everything else you want in a RB. Some were saying 1st round for the Steelers and I didn't like it. I like him right where he was drafted. I see him taking the job from Conner next year.

I like the kid and everything he brings, but I would have preferred TE or Edge here.  TE Foster Moreau was available. While many will argue that D. Johnson at WR was a luxury pick, I can understand why the Steelers drafted him and the value matched.  Snell is more a luxury pick in my opinion as we have two solid RB's and could have easily grabbed a veteran F/A.  That aside, he is a hard kid not to like and may do some things early on as a short-yardage back. He is a downhill runner, who is quicker and better than he looks at the Combine and in shorts.  Great attitude and character as well.  You can't under-estimate the value of having more young players like that on your roster. I still believe we could have got him a pick later.

On 6/22/2019 at 11:26 PM, armsteeld said:

Zach Gentry is a pick that I like more than everyone else. Yeah he needs work in run blocking but the effort is there. He is great at finding soft spots and gets separation even though he ran a slow 40 time (4.9) but improved it to a 4.6 at his pro day. I see him scoring at least 6 touchdowns as a rookie if becomes TE2.

I was incredulous at the pick. Up to this point, they ignored TE so far, why not just get a veteran free agent? The Edge kid  D. Walker UGA was available and could have had Moreau and Snell or Moreau and Walker the last two rounds. I flipped that they didn't take him.  Why??? I honestly don't believe Zach would have beat out Bucky Hodges in an open competition.  They obviously know a lot more and something that I don't, but I hope he proves me wrong. Vance is very good when healthy. Grimble is an unknown as a regular. He has shown some good things and bad, but not enough for me to be confident with him as a #2 or starting if Vance got hurt (which he has a lot as well).  I wish Zach well and welcome him to Steelers nation, but I absolutely hated the pick then and still do.

On 6/22/2019 at 11:26 PM, armsteeld said:

Loved the Sutton Smith selection. Y'all know I was a huge can for a couple years. He is great at rushing the passer but is invisible against the run. As a run defender he sucks, badly. He needs to work on strength and getting off blocks. I can see him getting situational blitzes/rushes from day one.

I am hoping this guy makes it. Ole school Steeler type. He has a motor, will probably be a better pro than he was in college. Great pick and probably one of my favorite picks.

On 6/22/2019 at 11:26 PM, armsteeld said:

Love the Isiaah Buggs selection. I was pimping him hard last year. I think he has the ability to take Tuitt's job next year. Strength, tenacity, technique, and attitude will help strengthen that defensive line. I can see him rotating in from day one.

Not as big a fan as you are with this one.  I would have preferred to see the team try to sign a free agent NG like Danny Shelton that the Patriots ended up resigning. Shelton would have been a great compliment to pair inside with Hargraves and for the times that they do play the limited 3-4.  I will be rooting for him, but I m not sure he is in Tuitt's class. He is one of the best 3-4 DE's in the entire NFL when healthy.  He can play the run and get up field. The defense is completely different in the trenches with a healthy Tuitt.

On 6/22/2019 at 11:26 PM, armsteeld said:

Gilbert is someone I didn't know much of. I love his speed and he's a solid tackler. Reminds me of Telvin Smith from the Jaguars. Plays the Slot position and runs with receivers well. Needs to get off blocks better but solid player.

I did some limited research on him after the pick, and I like him. He may take one of my favorite (Dirty Red) Steelers spots.  I have always been a Matakevich fan since college, but his lack of speed and quickness may cost him a roster spot.  Gilbert's quickness may win him the spot. Dirty Red always seems to step up to challenges like this, so I wouldn't put the money in the bank just yet that Tyler gets cut. Not a bad pick here though.

On 6/22/2019 at 11:26 PM, armsteeld said:

I like Derwin Gray and feel he has a chance to play inside as a Guard. Very powerful guy who moves defenders well. Stout and has solid lower body movement. Reminds me of Ramon Foster from his early years.

MEH!!! Practice squad at best in my humble opinion.

On 6/22/2019 at 11:26 PM, armsteeld said:

Not all guys I would have picked but what do y'all think?

 

I think it was one of the teams better drafts on paper.  Let's see how it goes during the season and four years from now.  If we are lucky, Bush will be described as a young Ray Lewis type.  Johnson will remind us of a young and improving AB (minus the diva and drama), Layne will starting or playing in the sub packages, Sutton Smith will become a surprise starter or rotation player. Snell will be a solid RB in the rotation and Gentry turns into Outlaw Part Two. Serena Williams leaves her husband for a sexy older bald guy.:D

 

If the Steelers hit with at least three or four of these guys as starters or heavy contributors, it will be successful.

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54 minutes ago, MOSteelers56 said:

If they believe Johnson is the next AB, then it’s not. Also, let’s not pretend like Washington and Moncrief are the answers. I expect them to do well but they are far from locks.

I don't think anyone realistically believes that Washington or Moncrief are realistic substitutions for AB's 100 plus catches, 1000 plus yards and 10 - 15 TD's.

However, if Washington can step in as the #3 and can put up say 40 catches, 450 yards and 4 TD's, Johnson can put up 20 catches 250 yards and 2 TD's, and Moncrief can put up 55 catches, 500 yards and 5 TD's.   Alone, none of those numbers compare to AB and are called modest at best. however, combined it looks similar 115 catches, 1200 yards, 11 TD's. That isn't including the numbers that I believe that Eli will get either.  Isn't our offense actually better with the varied ball distribution going everywhere?

Last year the back-ups of Hunter, Rogers (both hurt much of the year), Switzer, and Washington combined for 67 catches, 570 yards, and 2 TD's. Washington and Hunter under-performed and/or were hurt. Switzer was new to the team and Rogers was on IR for most of the year. 

AB's gaudy numbers and fantasy like stats are not there with any one player, but his production can be replaced in another way by a combined effort.

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3 hours ago, MOSteelers56 said:

If they believe Johnson is the next AB, then it’s not. Also, let’s not pretend like Washington and Moncrief are the answers. I expect them to do well but they are far from locks.

well, last year we were told that washington was the perfect pick. bpa, need, all that crap. so based on what everyone told me, there was no reason to waste a pick on johnson when there were much bigger needs

imo, moncrief is gonna do real well. 

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4 hours ago, muncher said:

well, last year we were told that washington was the perfect pick. bpa, need, all that crap. so based on what everyone told me, there was no reason to waste a pick on johnson when there were much bigger needs

imo, moncrief is gonna do real well. 

That’s the thing. He was a third round pick. If he turns into another AB(purely hypothetical, it’s rare someone is that good) and Washington hits his potential, we’ve got 3 great WRs. You can never have too many weapons. Moncrief is on a short deal. He’s no lock to do anything. I think he’ll have a good season too, but he could easily be cut the year after. I’ll take the kids on the cheap deals. 

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I love Johnson after the catch ability, I watched a lot of Toledo football. Big issue is catching the ball, sometimes he has amazing hands and other times they are like bricks, but he has a pretty good work ethic so hopefully he hits the juggs machine hard. He can use a little work on sitting in open spaces vs zone as he seems to run through the open area but that’s teachable too. I’m excited to have him. I really believe he can either become a stud, or be out of the league in three years depending on his dedication to becoming better. As I said his work ethic has been good in the past so hopefully it carries over and he becomes a sponge on how to become better. I’m hoping JUju being around the same age helps him become more professional 

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16 hours ago, MOSteelers56 said:

That’s the thing. He was a third round pick. If he turns into another AB(purely hypothetical, it’s rare someone is that good) and Washington hits his potential, we’ve got 3 great WRs. You can never have too many weapons. Moncrief is on a short deal. He’s no lock to do anything. I think he’ll have a good season too, but he could easily be cut the year after. I’ll take the kids on the cheap deals. 

the thing is you dont need 3 great wrs,

you need 1 great one and a couple complimentary guys. there arent enough footballs to go around to make 3 wrs great

with juju, we didnt need to spend a second on a wr last yea.r imo

with juju and washigton we didnt need to spend a third this year. imo

our defense(ilb and olb) have been ignored the past few years because we took a wr when we didnt have to

im all for paying certain positions on the cheap(rb and 2nd and 3rd wrs), but because of that, we are stuck paying dudpree big money for not much production, we needed to address those positions the last few years

 

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On 6/26/2019 at 1:12 PM, muncher said:

the thing is you dont need 3 great wrs,

I agree that you don't "need them," but I would prefer to have them. Injuries and history is on my side with having multiple great WR's. The Steelers got rid of two very good receivers in the 70's (I know different era), Ron Shanklin and Frank Lewis and kept two future HOF'ers on the same team at the same time in Stallworth and Swann.  They then once had a roster of an aging Swann and Stallworth with a young up and comer named Jim Smith and another young player from USC named Calvin Sweeney. Most teams don't have one great WR let alone three, but in today's pass happy game, I definitely like the luxury of having more than one really good player. Ju Ju still has to prove that he "can be" great.  Moncrief, Washington, Johnson,  Switzer, Rogers are not the stuff that keeps opposing CB's tossing and turning at night "yet." 

you need 1 great one and a couple complimentary guys. there aren't enough footballs to go around to make 3 wrs great

I think that you can thrive with three great WR's/TE's on a roster. I still remember the old San Diego "Super Chargers" with Jefferson then Chandler, Joiner and Winslow. They gave the Steelers fits in the early 80's and were a match-up nightmare. Losing AB is virtually impossible  to replace individually.  However, it can be easier and eased collectively.  Some of those catches may also go to TE Vance McDonald.

with juju, we didn't need to spend a second on a wr last year imo

Normally, I would agree with you. However, we said the same thing when Ju Ju was drafted with having Martavis Bryant and Sammy Coates on the roster already.  How did that turn out? Both of those guys are gone and now AB is gone.

with juju and washigton we didn't need to spend a third this year. imo

I believe that Washington will develop and improve, but I also think that it was wise to get an insurance policy as well. Losing AB did create a void and as stated above, no one player will replace his productivity this year and probably for a few years. Again, combined two, three or four guys may equal what AB did numbers wise if used the right way.

our defense(ilb and olb) have been ignored the past few years because we took a wr when we didn't have to

I don't like how they have evaluated some players/picks over the past few years.  As I stated in my earlier post, they missed a decent all around prospect in LSU TE Foster Moreau and took a project in Michigan TE Zach Gentry. As much as I love Ryan Shazier, I hated the pick when they drafted him as well. They hit and miss just as we do. We also don't have the benefit of interviewing these players, seeing them live, talking to coaches, etc.  As much as I (and many others) like to think that we know the real deal, we are limited in what we have. Two players that I liked last year Edmonds and Colts LB Darius Leonard.  But I had them tabbed as third and fourth rounders, and not a first and second rounder as they were drafted!  I say that to demonstrate, teams get antsy and they like who they like. As stated, some would argue the Steelers gave up too much to move up and draft Bush at ILB despite the obvious glaring hole there.  As they say, six one way and a half dozen the other.

All that aside, I do agree with you that more attention and priority should have been placed on some other needs. I do expect Bud to have a bigger impact this year.

im all for paying certain positions on the cheap(rb and 2nd and 3rd wrs), but because of that, we are stuck paying dudpree big money for not much production, we needed to address those positions the last few years

Agreed!

 

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I was not a fan of the draft at all, especially considering we traded up in 1, when we should've done so last year instead to fix the problem instead of ignoring it and could've taken a superior player to boot.  IF Bush is more productive with us that he was in college, with actual splash plays, at least it will be salvageable, but as-is, not a fan at all.  

1.  Tiny LB with great range.  Not a fan, but hopefully he's better here than in college. 

2.  Tiny WR with terrible measurables.  Slow for his size, and his agility/COD are subpar as well.  I know nothing about him other than that, so hopefully the writeup on him, comparing him to Emmanuel Sanders, is accurate and it's a good pick.  He was projected as a 4-5 prior to the draft if I remember right.  There were at least a handful of other WRs I would've taken over him at this point.  

3.  A really big CB, with solid measurables.  His 4.50 40 is lackluster, but at 6'2" 192 with 33" arms and great COD/agility numbers for his size, he at least measures up ok.  Probably the guy I'm hoping to see great things out of the most.  I preferred Isaiah Johnson.  

4.  Very slow RB, that is a poor man's Conner if anything.  Not the ideal pick at all.  Myles Gaskin would've made a lot more sense.  

5.  Enormous TE that is very slow.  Hopefully McDonald stays healthy.  Slim picking at this point at TE, with all the remaining TEs that got drafted running almost as slow, so at least he's huge.  Isaac Nauta I liked better though in what little I saw them.  

6.  Tiny DE/LB that might not have a real position, except ST's monster?  He is really sudden, but I question whether he'll get stoned constantly due to his lack of size if he's used as a pass rusher.  I liked watching him play and his play style, but I think he might lack adequate size to even make roster.

The rest look like just depth to me.  

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nobody here will replace AB, lets make that clear. He had possibly the best 6 year stretch of a WR some say, so that is historic and he is history:ph34r: What will be something to observe is how the team replaces his yardage and TD's. I don't need a single player to do so, but as long as the team does, that is  what matters. If AB was a distraction and a cancer as some say, then lets see if the lack of that also helps the team. 

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On 6/27/2019 at 6:41 PM, Magnus-Viktor said:

I was not a fan of the draft at all, especially considering we traded up in 1, when we should've done so last year instead to fix the problem instead of ignoring it and could've taken a superior player to boot. 

 

What player are you talking about specifically? Picking at #28 had them severely limited and probably would have cost this years #1.

The Steelers would have had to mortgage the farm to move up to get R. Smith in the top seven ahead of the Bears.

I know they loved Edmunds taken #16 by the Bills. I guess since they couldn't get him they took his brother whom I had a third round grade on instead.  Not enough assets to get up to that position without affecting this years picks.

The Cowboys taking Vander Esch at #19 hurt us.  I think that is who probably would have been their pick since they were competing with the Titans to jump up to get one.  Picking at #28 hurt their chances to move up and give a team worth while value.

 

Many on this site loved Rashaan Evans.  Unfortunately, so did the Titans picking ahead of us and being able to offer better trade bait. It was rumored that the Steelers had a deal in place with someone and the Titans jumped a pick or two ahead of their trade partner or made them a better offer.

The only player from this draft class that I think would have been taken ahead of both Devin's is Roquaan Smith. Devin White is probably #2 and Tremaine Edmunds probably goes ahead of Bush based on size. Evans was falling some due to concerns about speed if I recall and Vander Esch went from a second or third round prospect to a top 20.

I say all of this to say that I think the front office actually did a great job considering that they didn't get nearly what they wanted in an AB trade and he scared the be-Jesus out of any potential suitors and caused the Bills to back out on giving up a top ten pick. I think that Bush fits their system better than Vander Esch or Evans would have. Although Vander Esch proved to be pretty darn good at dropping in coverage.

 

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On 6/25/2019 at 1:14 PM, Steeler Hitman said:

I like the kid and everything he brings, but I would have preferred TE or Edge here.  TE Foster Moreau was available. While many will argue that D. Johnson at WR was a luxury pick, I can understand why the Steelers drafted him and the value matched.  Snell is more a luxury pick in my opinion as we have two solid RB's and could have easily grabbed a veteran F/A.  That aside, he is a hard kid not to like and may do some things early on as a short-yardage back. He is a downhill runner, who is quicker and better than he looks at the Combine and in shorts.  Great attitude and character as well.  You can't under-estimate the value of having more young players like that on your roster. I still believe we could have got him a pick later.

I agree it 98% of what you said--except for above...

 I was a huge AB fan, and now??  Dude broke my heart, as he did with many others, I'm sure--I don't blame Ben one bit, quite honestly...

...and I am cautiously optimistic about Moncrief, and Johnson...Washington??  Just cautious, tbh...

...but on to the bolded...once our Primary went down, we had no one who was a FT RB...our young Rookie last year, for all his strengths, is not a #-down back to me, so, IMO, Snell is a GREAT insurance policy AND one who can spell Conner.

Everything else??  Spot on, so I'll save everyone from my droning!! 

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Posted (edited)

 

On 6/27/2019 at 2:25 PM, Steeler Hitman said:

Normally, I would agree with you. However, we said the same thing when Ju Ju was drafted with having Martavis Bryant and Sammy Coates on the roster already.  How did that turn out? Both of those guys are gone and now AB is gone.

And to piggy back...we only have Juju for two more years. Yes, I know there are all sorts of ways to make sure he stays with us, but the bottom line is, that 'decreases' flexibility--the Steelers need to continue drafting a WR, each year, IMO--it's such an important position, especially when your TE position is questionable...

If we draft an amazing TE, then sure, we can lay off the WR that season, but these 5-7th Rd TEs we seem to bring in are not 'cutting the mustard'...

Edited by Ward4HOF

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Posted (edited)
On 2019-06-26 at 1:12 PM, muncher said:

the thing is you dont need 3 great wrs,

you need 1 great one and a couple complimentary guys. there arent enough footballs to go around to make 3 wrs great

with juju, we didnt need to spend a second on a wr last yea.r imo

with juju and washigton we didnt need to spend a third this year. imo

our defense(ilb and olb) have been ignored the past few years because we took a wr when we didnt have to

im all for paying certain positions on the cheap(rb and 2nd and 3rd wrs), but because of that, we are stuck paying dudpree big money for not much production, we needed to address those positions the last few years

 

D hasn't been ignored since they did draft and sign players. Colbert failed in these areas, but the drafting of Bush should help ILB and if dupree has better coaching maybe OLB could be ok especially if Adeyinin and Co. can contribute. It's not what we  are used to for  D but it's what we have to get used to I guess

 

with connor and samuels being so good at catching passes, it helps the passing game too, hence them not really needing 3 WR's of higher calibre.  I am not sure about washington, so wait and see. I think with WR the QB has to trust the player, so it could be how well ben interacts and trusts these WR's.  Drop too many passes and that could land the WR on the sidelines. Washington better have a good season since he was a higher draft pick

Edited by 3rivers

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