Top 5 Packers Age 25 or Younger?

[Cadmus]

The following tweet got me thinking... 

 

I know we did a roster thread awhile back, but I wanted to see how everyone felt about this specific question.  

I think our Top 5 (no rookies included above) would be: 

• Kenny Clark 
• Jaire Alexander 
• Blake Martinez
• Aaron Jones 
• Kevin King 

An argument could be made for MVS, but that's about the only viable argument for any non-rookie I can see. 

How do we all feel about the talent age 25 or younger on the current roster?

 

 

Edited July 10, 2019 by Cadmus

[MacReady]

That’s got me thinking LOL poor Cowboys. Their best players are at ILB, ILB, WR, RB and an average QB they’re going to have to pay big money to.  Cowboys are screwed going forward.

[MacReady]

Also, I love that our best under 25 are all on defense.  

I would say:

Alexander, Clark, Savage, Gary and Jones will be our list heading into NEXT season.

[Cadmus]

25 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

Also, I love that our best under 25 are all on defense.  

I would say:

Alexander, Clark, Savage, Gary and Jones will be our list heading into NEXT season.

Well Aaron Jones is a RB, but yeah there's a lot of young talent on the defensive side of the ball. 

FWIW, Aaron Jones twin brother Alvin Jones plays LB for the Ravens. 

It definitely makes me wonder what's stopping Aaron from getting rocked up to 220. 

[MrBobGray]

I'd take MVS over King for sure.  I like King a fair amount, but even outside his health my personal bet is on MVS being a better receiver than King is a corner.  Other than that though I think it's pretty cut and dry.

[Cadmus]

2 minutes ago, MrBobGray said:

I'd take MVS over King for sure.  I like King a fair amount, but even outside his health my personal bet is on MVS being a better receiver than King is a corner.  Other than that though I think it's pretty cut and dry.

Interesting. 

So my argument would be that a healthy (very important) Kevin King has the potential to be a Top 10 CB in the NFL. King (obviously) has an extremely wide range of outcomes. 

I just don't think MVS has close to that type of potential as a WR. 

MVS might be the safer bet in terms of floor, but if I want the highest ceiling I still think it's King.

[Shanedorf]

click on the Age column and it will sort them for ya.
63 out of 90 players are age 25 yrs or under

https://www.packers.com/team/players-roster/

[SSG]

Ouch, our list pales in comparison to the 4 listed.  Why couldn't it be 26 and younger lol

 

Kenny Clark 

Aaron Jones 

Blake Martinez 

Jaire Alexander....... 

 

Then I'd pick the last one out of a hat.  Spriggs, MVS, King, Allison and Lowry are about even in my eyes in regards to where they would rank in their position group around the NFL.  

 

[pacman5252]

Clark and Jaire are very easy 1-2. Then it is pretty subjective. I could see arguing

Based on production;

3.  Martinez- He's been a good ILB, not super special, but probably a top 10-12ish ILB. I'd be bummed if we don't resign him, but it would make me also cringe if we gave him 12M a year.

4. A Jones- dynamic and when on the field a top 10 RB, but has had injuries.

5. Very distant MVS (1 up and down year) or King (honestly another injury would make me write him off)

Based on potential

3. Gary- Didn't love the pick, but he is a Spartan with mega upside.

4. Savage- Looks to be a good player with pro bowl upside

5. Probably MVS or Jones -Both have flashed but there are concerns over both (consistency/injuries). Both have top 10 upside at their positions (meaning potential pro bowl ability)

HM-Jenkins too (I'll give a G some love, probably won't be on anyone's list).

HM- ESB- Similar to MVS, didn't flash as much though

--------------------------------------

My gun to my head pick 5-  Clark, Jaire, Martinez, Gary, and Savage (upside combined with proven ability).

 

 

 

[MrBobGray]

4 hours ago, Cadmus said:

Interesting. 

So my argument would be that a healthy (very important) Kevin King has the potential to be a Top 10 CB in the NFL. King (obviously) has an extremely wide range of outcomes. 

I just don't think MVS has close to that type of potential as a WR. 

MVS might be the safer bet in terms of floor, but if I want the highest ceiling I still think it's King.

I think you're a little higher on King than I am and a lot lower on MVS.  I'll take my shot here and say that I'm fairly confident that MVS will end up 1000+ yard, 10 TD receiver this season.  I think he'll have Davante to thank for some of that, but I just see a player that should excel in today's game. 6'4" with that kind of instant speed is already trouble, but everything I've read and heard tells me he has a sort of fanatical desire for self-improvement.  Those are the players that you like their chances of hitting their ceiling, and I see his ceiling as being way, way up there.  On top of the physical gifts he catches with his hands, he can track the ball downfield, and he's a big time effort guy as a ball carrier.  He's not gonna be Tyreek Hill out there, I don't see that natural level of open field running, but when you're big and fast and you play with urgency and don't go down on contact you can still do plenty of damage.  I don't see much for serious weaknesses there, I sort of feel like he's close to being a "he'll be as good as he wants to be" type player.

King on the other hand is an odd duck.  Here's a statement no one else will agree with at all, but there's a not small part of me that thinks his long term spot in the NFL is safety.  He does a lot of good things; I like him in run support and coming up on bubble screens a ton.  He's not afraid to stick his body in there, he plays with great angles and he almost always gets his man on the ground.  I also love him playing vertical man coverage; he's money on deep routes because he knows where he needs to be in the pocket to still be able to blanket his guy with his size when the ball comes.

But he also struggles to handle double moves in a very concerning way (especially in off coverage where he routinely is left behind) and he just does not have much in the way of recovery speed at all.  I have no idea how that man ran a 4.43, because he looks like he plays closer to 4.6. His change of direction isn't bad for 6'3", but CBs are the shortest position group on average for reason.  Every false step he takes is a lot more damning for him, and when they get him to open his hips early he's just straight done.  In the Rams game alone I counted four plays in two drives where his man had a good four to five yards of separation.  

Now, Sherman had a lot of the same negatives and he carved out a Hall of Fame career, so certainly I don't think he's a bust or can't play.  Sherman did have the advantage of a defensive scheme that catered perfectly to his strengths, but I will note that the Packers are trying this with King; he plays almost exclusively LCB and generally is either the deep man to his side or playing press man outside the numbers.  But Sherman also made up for his negatives with an exceptionally well developed game sense and instincts, and I don't see that from King in any fashion yet.  He's only in his third year with 15 career games, so I'm not saying I don't think he'll ever get there, just that he really needs to stay healthy and get on that grind this year, or I worry he may never get the snaps he needs to start sanding the edges off that part of his game.

Edited July 11, 2019 by MrBobGray

[AlexGreen#20]

4 hours ago, Cadmus said:

Interesting. 

So my argument would be that a healthy (very important) Kevin King has the potential to be a Top 10 CB in the NFL. King (obviously) has an extremely wide range of outcomes. 

I just don't think MVS has close to that type of potential as a WR. 

MVS might be the safer bet in terms of floor, but if I want the highest ceiling I still think it's King.

We're questioning MVS ceiling? That's a new one for me.

[pacman5252]

Too much love for King, he’s been hurt every year going back to college. I hope he puts it together, but I have doubt 

[boratt]

I’m not a fan of the list either. Hopefully next year we’re coming off a SB win and say our under 25 club is these guys:

Gary, Clark, Alexander, Savage and MVS 

[Cadmus]

2 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

We're questioning MVS ceiling? That's a new one for me.

Sure, if you want to spin it like that. 

I don't think MVS will ever be a Top 10 WR in the NFL. 

I know I'm on a board full of Packers fans, but that's not some crazy take. 

IMHO, he's clearly behind a number of other young WRs in terms of ceiling. Don't want to get into it to much because I'm in a dynasty league with a bunch of guys on here, but I don't view MVS as some limitless talent.

Could he surprise me? Sure. Did I see enough (or really anything) during his rookie season to suggest he will develop into an elite alpha-type WR? Nope.  

He will be a really good player that will probably be paid like a back-end WR1 (or high WR2) after that rookie contract.

2 hours ago, MrBobGray said:

I think you're a little higher on King than I am and a lot lower on MVS.  I'll take my shot here and say that I'm fairly confident that MVS will end up 1000+ yard, 10 TD receiver this season.  I think he'll have Davante to thank for some of that, but I just see a player that should excel in today's game. 6'4" with that kind of instant speed is already trouble, but everything I've read and heard tells me he has a sort of fanatical desire for self-improvement.  Those are the players that you like their chances of hitting their ceiling, and I see his ceiling as being way, way up there.  On top of the physical gifts he catches with his hands, he can track the ball downfield, and he's a big time effort guy as a ball carrier.  He's not gonna be Tyreek Hill out there, I don't see that natural level of open field running, but when you're big and fast and you play with urgency and don't go down on contact you can still do plenty of damage.  I don't see much for serious weaknesses there, I sort of feel like he's close to being a "he'll be as good as he wants to be" type player.

King on the other hand is an odd duck.  Here's a statement no one else will agree with at all, but there's a not small part of me that thinks his long term spot in the NFL is safety.  He does a lot of good things; I like him in run support and coming up on bubble screens a ton.  He's not afraid to stick his body in there, he plays with great angles and he almost always gets his man on the ground.  I also love him playing vertical man coverage; he's money on deep routes because he knows where he needs to be in the pocket to still be able to blanket his guy with his size when the ball comes.

But he also struggles to handle double moves in a very concerning way (especially in off coverage where he routinely is left behind) and he just does not have much in the way of recovery speed at all.  I have no idea how that man ran a 4.43, because he looks like he plays closer to 4.6. His change of direction isn't bad for 6'3", but CBs are the shortest position group on average for reason.  Every false step he takes is a lot more damning for him, and when they get him to open his hips early he's just straight done.  In the Rams game alone I counted four plays in two drives where his man had a good four to five yards of separation.  

Now, Sherman had a lot of the same negatives and he carved out a Hall of Fame career, so certainly I don't think he's a bust or can't play.  Sherman did have the advantage of a defensive scheme that catered perfectly to his strengths, but I will note that the Packers are trying this with King; he plays almost exclusively LCB and generally is either the deep man to his side or playing press man outside the numbers.  But Sherman also made up for his negatives with an exceptionally well developed game sense and instincts, and I don't see that from King in any fashion yet.  He's only in his third year with 15 career games, so I'm not saying I don't think he'll ever get there, just that he really needs to stay healthy and get on that grind this year, or I worry he may never get the snaps he needs to start sanding the edges off that part of his game.

Okay, counting stats don't necessarily equate talent (and it seems you somewhat acknowledged that). 

There's a number of instances where receivers hit 1000 yards solely based on target volume/opportunity.

I'll just say I respectfully disagree on your King @ CB take because there's not many places I see eye to eye with you on that one. 

[MrBobGray]

2 hours ago, Cadmus said:

Sure, if you want to spin it like that. 

I don't think MVS will ever be a Top 10 WR in the NFL. 

I know I'm on a board full of Packers fans, but that's not some crazy take. 

IMHO, he's clearly behind a number of other young WRs in terms of ceiling. Don't want to get into it to much because I'm in a dynasty league with a bunch of guys on here, but I don't view MVS as some limitless talent.

Could he surprise me? Sure. Did I see enough (or really anything) during his rookie season to suggest he will develop into an elite alpha-type WR? Nope.  

He will be a really good player that will probably be paid like a back-end WR1 (or high WR2) after that rookie contract.

Okay, counting stats don't necessarily equate talent (and it seems you somewhat acknowledged that). 

There's a number of instances where receivers hit 1000 yards solely based on target volume/opportunity.

I'll just say I respectfully disagree on your King @ CB take because there's not many places I see eye to eye with you on that one. 

If you have the time and feel like going into it at some point, I'd love to get your read on King as you see him. He's a hard one for me to get a feel for because I don't have his college tape and there just isn't much NFL tape of him at this point, and on top of that what tape there is is of a player who's usually battling soft tissue and shoulder injuries. The player I expect to see I rarely do, but that's not to say I'm down on him, I just wish I had more to work with. 

I stand by my read of him in the sense that after watching the Lions, 49ers and Rams game that's the player I see, but I'll be the first to admit I have a tougher time grading corners than I do DL. I want to go through the Bears and what he played against NE tomorrow, then check out his 2017 film against Julio and AJ. 

Also, yeah we're just on different pages on MVS which is fine. I only gave the stats because I wanted to have a post I can obnoxiously refer back to if he hits my numbers, I agree they don't equate with talent especially at receiver. Personally I think his ceiling is sky high, and unlike King he doesn't have the health issues. If you could guarantee me a healthy Kevvoo I'd take him, but given the reality I just can't go there yet. He's one of my favorite young players though and I LOVE the way he plays the game, so I'll certainly be rooting for him.