WindyCity Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 13 minutes ago, beardown3231 said: What exactly are the things Trubisky does well though? Ok, so the big thing is he likes to run around. I highly doubt Nagy told him to stop doing that. More rollouts? Ok, yeah maybe draw up a few more of those. What else? I am not sure what the threshold is for good, but what does he do better at -Under centre play action over RPO -Back shoulder throws down field over shot plays to midgets -intermediate middle of the field throws Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abstract_thought Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 2 hours ago, AZBearsFan said: I think there’s a pretty big misconception about the whole half field read thing. Every team and every quarterback has half field reads in their gameplan every week. I think Nagy was just trying to force too many of the full field reads this year before Mitch was ready for them. And he may never be ready for them consistently. That doesn’t mean he can’t do the other things that he does well while he develops the ability to do the things he doesn’t do well yet even if that takes longer than anyone hoped it would. The biggest failure to me of our 2019 offense was in Nagy’s failure to build the gameplan around the things Mitch can do (and openly likes to do) leading to an inconsistent floor for our offense. Building around that wasn’t going to give us a guaranteed 20+ per game but it wouldn’t have us going into the half with 0 half of the games either. I say this is the biggest failure because it was a big factor IMO in Mitch’s stunted development by both putting us in the precarious position of being behind on the scoreboard and by putting him in a position consistently where he wasn’t building confidence, and he was CLEARLY a guy who struggled with confidence this year. If he’s your guy then you HAVE to help him out with that. Asking him regularly to do things he’s not ready to do is the opposite of that. Hell he was practically begging for it at postgame press conferences, then when Nagy obliges Mitch responded with a 4-game stretch in which we saw him look pretty darn good. Some of that was the competition but some of it was him holding up his end when he was better put in position to succeed. He made a damn good Dallas defense look like the Lions defense in prime time and Nagy responded by taking a lot of what worked there out of future game plans. None of this is meant to absolve Mitch of his role in our offensive failures by any means - he certainly has that - but Nagy is the guy orchestrating the show here and he did a poor job of it. Nagy seems to not understand that when this offense flourished under Alex Smith (pretty Mitch-like in his skill set) in the season that GOT HIM THIS JOB it had Kareem Hunt as the league’s leading rusher too. Reid runs the ball with purpose in this scheme and his QBs benefit as much as anyone. Nagy seemingly runs it only because someone reminds him that it’s an option. The Chiefs, Patriots, Saints, Chargers, Falcons, Packers and Seahawks all have Hall of Fame QBs yet they all still maintain a strong commitment to running the ball consistently. That’s not a coincidence. The Bears ran the ball more than the Chiefs, Chargers, and Falcons last season. They were 10 attempts behind the Saints and 12 attempts below the median team. I suppose Nagy could have just decided to run an offense like San Francisco, but given the quality of their running game (30th in the league in YPC), the Bears would have been punting the ball a lot. The issues with Mitch were apparent in 2018 and were noted by people around the NFL. Bears fans chose to bury their heads in the sand. Now we're stuck with a bad QB and people want to pin that on the coach. I won't absolve Nagy of his fair share, but Mitch owns the majority of the blame for his lack of success. He's simply not good. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beardown3231 Posted February 6, 2020 Author Share Posted February 6, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, WindyCity said: I am not sure what the threshold is for good, but what does he do better at -Under centre play action over RPO Fair -Back shoulder throws down field over shot plays to midgets Of course it's fun to say this and pick out less than 10 plays run each year, but it's not like Cohen is the lone guy running a route on these plays. There were dozens of plays over the course of the year that the All-22 showed that he either missed or didn't see so he didn't throw. Based on what I saw this year, I wouldn't be so sure that there weren't a good amount of plays like this run that he instead dumped it off to Cohen. It's not like Cohen is out there by himself; Trubisky's just choosing him. That's on Nagy? Daniel even had a radio spot this year where he said Mitch needs to trust what he sees. Helfrich said they tell Mitch who will be open and he doesn't throw it to that guy because his assumption is "it can't be that easy." The guy is completely lost. He ran out of bounds on 3rd down and took a sack and in the same game (KC) he dumped it off on 4th and 23. Against NO in a must-have 4th down, he threw it away. -intermediate middle of the field throws Most QB's are. Let's get Mitch a cookie here. Edited February 6, 2020 by beardown3231 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 1 hour ago, beardown3231 said: I am not sure what you are talking about. Trubisky is better at throwing back shoulder throws, to bigger targets, down field then he is at the traditional deep shot plays to guys like Gabriel. We have seen this a number of times even completing these passes to Wims when he has played. I am not sure about the rest of the rant. You act like Trubisky is the only QB to run out of bounds for a sack. It happens all the time. Derek Carr threw a 4th down pass away at the goal line. All QBs do dumb things it is the nature of the position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 4 hours ago, beardown3231 said: What exactly are the things Trubisky does well though? Ok, so the big thing is he likes to run around. I highly doubt Nagy told him to stop doing that. More rollouts? Ok, yeah maybe draw up a few more of those. What else? 4th in the NFL in 4th quarter comebacks 7th in the league in Game Winning Drives Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beardown3231 Posted February 6, 2020 Author Share Posted February 6, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, WindyCity said: 4th in the NFL in 4th quarter comebacks 7th in the league in Game Winning Drives Spectacular. That's such a stupid stat. Maybe stop putting your team in a horrible position all game offensively and then you wouldn't need all of these drives. If these were 30-27 games and he was leading them down, great. How many were super low scoring? I'll wait. If we're going to use this as a pro-Trubisky argument, let's use it as a pro-Nagy one, too. He called great plays to get them there, right? 19 minutes ago, WindyCity said: I am not sure what you are talking about. Trubisky is better at throwing back shoulder throws, to bigger targets, down field then he is at the traditional deep shot plays to guys like Gabriel. We have seen this a number of times even completing these passes to Wims when he has played. I am not sure about the rest of the rant. You act like Trubisky is the only QB to run out of bounds for a sack. It happens all the time. Derek Carr threw a 4th down pass away at the goal line. All QBs do dumb things it is the nature of the position. What do you mean "what am I talking about?" You're assuming that plays aren't being called with one of the receivers running a back shoulder throw. Based on what we saw all year on the All-22, he wasn't seeing guys open consistently. He was making errant throws consistently. What if the plays were being called for him to have an option to throw these "back shoulder passes to big targets down the field" but he wasn't making them or even trying? Edited February 6, 2020 by beardown3231 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abstract_thought Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 1 minute ago, WindyCity said: 4th in the NFL in 4th quarter comebacks 7th in the league in Game Winning Drives In 2018 he was T22nd and T17th, respectively. Did he get more clutch or are these just silly stats that don't really mean anything? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 2 minutes ago, beardown3231 said: Spectacular. That's such a stupid stat. Maybe stop putting your team in a horrible position all game offensively and then you wouldn't need all of these drives. If these were 30-27 games and he was leading them down, great. How many were super low scoring? I'll wait. If we're going to use this as a pro-Trubisky argument, let's use it as a pro-Nagy one, too. He called great plays to get them there, right? What do you mean "what am I talking about?" You're assuming that plays aren't being called with one of the receivers running a back shoulder throw. Based on what we saw all year on the All-22, he wasn't seeing guys open consistently. He was making errant throws consistently. What if the plays were being called for him to have an option to throw these "back shoulder passes to big targets down the field" but he wasn't making them or even trying? No one is trying to take credit away from Nagy. Trubisky executes pretty well late in games, no one is saying he does well earlier. I am not assuming anything. He is better on those throws I have no idea if they are being called or in what circumstance. I know having Gabriel or Cohen run deep routes is almost pointless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 5 minutes ago, abstract_thought said: In 2018 he was T22nd and T17th, respectively. Did he get more clutch or are these just silly stats that don't really mean anything? It is a stat based on opportunity. He did not have the opportunity in 2018, so to degree it is flawed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abstract_thought Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, WindyCity said: It is a stat based on opportunity. He did not have the opportunity in 2018, so to degree it is flawed. It's highly flawed for a number of reasons, foremost that it is extremely contextual. There's also the issue that there's no spread in the data. Stats with such large variability from year-to-year are not associated with a player's ability. Edited February 6, 2020 by abstract_thought Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 Trubisky was bad last year. But nothing, literally nothing, worked on offense above and beyond the QB. We are not getting a new QB worth a damn, so perhaps at some point we adjust to what the QB does better. That doesn't mean he is good or things he does at an above average level, but there are things he does at a higher level than what we saw being run last season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinz D. Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 1 hour ago, WindyCity said: Trubisky was bad last year. But nothing, literally nothing, worked on offense above and beyond the QB. We are not getting a new QB worth a damn, so perhaps at some point we adjust to what the QB does better. That doesn't mean he is good or things he does at an above average level, but there are things he does at a higher level than what we saw being run last season. You're convinced they couldn't draft Eason or Stanley in the second? Now, I know they won't do that...but is that what you're saying? I'm somewhat confused. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 22 minutes ago, Heinz D. said: You're convinced they couldn't draft Eason or Stanley in the second? Now, I know they won't do that...but is that what you're saying? I'm somewhat confused. I think he's saying we shouldn't. If we don't fix the cogs and gears on offense to make it work properly, the QB would have to be otherworldly to do well here. ROSEN 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinz D. Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 7 minutes ago, RunningVaccs said: I think he's saying we shouldn't. If we don't fix the cogs and gears on offense to make it work properly, the QB would have to be otherworldly to do well here. ROSEN Disagree with the "otherworldly" contention, as I find it weird. But... I'm glad you're still conducting the Rosen train. I'm intrigued by him, too. We'll see what happens with that guy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 57 minutes ago, Heinz D. said: You're convinced they couldn't draft Eason or Stanley in the second? Now, I know they won't do that...but is that what you're saying? I'm somewhat confused. Neither of those guys is going to be worth a damn in 2020. If they pick Stanley in the 2nd round Pace should be fired before round 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.