Week #5 Steelers 1-3 vs. Ravens 2-2 Gamethread

[VigilantZombie]

Tomlin, imo, isnt as much the problem as it is the coordinators he employs.

[Steeler Hitman]

13 hours ago, FourThreeMafia said:

We kicked the ball, held them to 3 and out, and got good field position out of it.   Its silly to act like it didn't just because we turned the ball over on the following drive.  

We have no idea what would've happened if we took the ball first, but the plan to trust the defense worked.  It was the offense that messed up.

You are correct that we have no idea what woulda, coulda or shoulda happened had he received the ball first.  I know that our offense would have been given the chance to WIN the game.  Our defense may or may not have to stop them depending on if the offense scores a TD or FG. If they do nothing, we probably lose anyway.  In theory it worked because the defense stopped them first. In reality it did not because we lost. At the end of the day it is still an L in the loss column. No one will give style points or remember how close we came to beating the Ravens....As we were close against the 49'ers and Seahawks as well. The Steelers are 1 - 4 and could also be 4 - 1, 3-2, or 2-3.

Like most fans, I am a bit pissed and emotional in losing another win-able game against a good football team. Which is also why I waited to respond. I think it says a lot that Coach T had that much confidence in our defense.  They have been getting better in all phases and actually setting the table for the offense.  No doubt the defense kept the Steelers in the game.  We have been playing most of the year with a back-up QB and were down to our third string QB.  The offense has been slow to come around and is inconsistent at best.

However, in order to win that game, the offense was going to have to make some plays.  We could have hoped that our defense forced another turnover or did their job and stopped them (as they did the first drive of OT).  The call to give the ball to the offense is just a difference in philosophy. I prefer to send the MESSAGE to the offense and show some trust in the QB.  To win someone on offense was going to have to make some plays. Having a third string QB that was going to have to throw us to a win and may have to play going forward, I would have given him the shot to win it.  Especially with him being the hot hand or spark so to speak since replacing Mason.  If he couldn't, it still would have fell to our defense anyway.  It felt like we played not to win. That is an arguable or debatable point that I am making.

The defense could not stop them from kicking a FG in regulation.   I had little doubt that the result was going to be anything except a Justin Tucker walk-off FG in OT.  It came the second drive instead of the first, set up by an untimely fumble by our best WR. He played the percentages, but percentage players lose as well as we see.  Coach T can also use some coaching mojo as well. I respect him for trying, but he has been losing more of those than winning going back to some of the 4th down calls last year.  When you lose you will be second guessed.   Coach Billichick has gone from a losing coach who was always second guessed to the GOAT.  Why?  He is not really any smarter, but he has been better with the choices he has made and the team has backed him by executing.  As we see it is a thin line between wins and losses.

[3rivers]

8 minutes ago, wwhickok said:

Tbh, idk. The first two 3 games of the season out offensive gameplan was terrible. 

Against the Bengals it worked. Against the Ravens Fichtner started out trying to do the same wildcat b.s. that he tried to do against the Bengals and the result was the Ravens got a 10-0 lead.

Did I not say that crap would NOT work? I was right. Just sayin'.

 

anything will work against the bungles right now, they are in bad shape , injuries etc, just not good for a comparison. No way Reich would have allowed richter to call such trash .  As much as we have been down on this team in various ways, a good coach could have this teams record better no doubt about it.  The team has Pro's and pro bowlers, then run a Pro offence, not a gimmick offence.  The QB won the Unitis award in NCAA, he is capable of throwing the football more than 5 yards .

Right now I think fichner is about as disliked as the OL was for me years back.  However, the OL was in a rebuild back then, but fichner is bens OC so he is here for the long haul no matter what. 

[3rivers]

2 minutes ago, Steeler Hitman said:

You are correct that we have no idea what woulda, coulda or shoulda happened had he received the ball first.  I know that our offense would have been given the chance to WIN the game.  Our defense may or may not have to stop them depending on if the offense scores a TD or FG. If they do nothing, we probably lose anyway.  In theory it worked because the defense stopped them first. In reality it did not because we lost. At the end of the day it is still an L in the loss column. No one will give style points or remember how close we came to beating the Ravens....As we were close against the 49'ers and Seahawks as well. The Steelers are 1 - 4 and could also be 4 - 1, 3-2, or 2-3.

Like most fans, I am a bit pissed and emotional in losing another win-able game against a good football team. Which is also why I waited to respond. I think it says a lot that Coach T had that much confidence in our defense.  They have been getting better in all phases and actually setting the table for the offense.  No doubt the defense kept the Steelers in the game.  We have been playing most of the year with a back-up QB and were down to our third string QB.  The offense has been slow to come around and is inconsistent at best.

However, in order to win that game, the offense was going to have to make some plays.  We could have hoped that our defense forced another turnover or did their job and stopped them (as they did the first drive of OT).  The call to give the ball to the offense is just a difference in philosophy. I prefer to send the MESSAGE to the offense and show some trust in the QB.  To win someone on offense was going to have to make some plays. Having a third string QB that was going to have to throw us to a win and may have to play going forward, I would have given him the shot to win it.  Especially with him being the hot hand or spark so to speak since replacing Mason.  If he couldn't, it still would have fell to our defense anyway.  It felt like we played not to win. That is an arguable or debatable point that I am making.

The defense could not stop them from kicking a FG in regulation.   I had little doubt that the result was going to be anything except a Justin Tucker walk-off FG in OT.  It came the second drive instead of the first, set up by an untimely fumble by our best WR. He played the percentages, but percentage players lose as well as we see.  Coach T can also use some coaching mojo as well. I respect him for trying, but he has been losing more of those than winning going back to some of the 4th down calls last year.  When you lose you will be second guessed.   Coach Billichick has gone from a losing coach who was always second guessed to the GOAT.  Why?  He is not really any smarter, but he has been better with the choices he has made and the team has backed him by executing.  As we see it is a thin line between wins and losses.

BB will take chances and gladly make adjustments for the plan accordingly. That  isn't the case with the steelers staff, very stubborn, set in their ways among other detrimental attributes. If BB was coaching this team, they could be 5-0 or 4-1, not 1-4 thats for sure. 

to win they need a better/legit OC. More important, the OL needs to be put on notice, coach and players. The only one I would keep for sure right now would be DDC and he isn't playing his best either. Feiler is ok, could be decent. Pouncey is and has been overrated and gets pushed around in the run game. Foster shouldn't be starting and AV is having his worst year, maybe his time is up ? Get an OL that will run block, and plays are made all the time, keep TOP and score that way and wear the  opponent out. That also opens up play action .

The D made plays btw, but the offence never got as many points as they should have. Right now, this team is being exposed for having a terrible OC, a HC that allows that, and being soft in the run game on both sides, mainly on offence though. 

[Dcash4]

I questioned the call at first too, but the more you think about it and after Tomlins comments in the presser about it being driven by his Special Teams unit -- it makes complete sense. 

Its still a bit of a risk, but I mean....us getting pinned inside the 20 with a 4th string, rookie, UDFA who was cut once this year by us QB....yeah, we were probably punting to around the 50 and then they only need about 15 for Justin Tucker to end us with 3. 

It scared the hell out of me at first, but this was the right decision. The wrong decision is continuing to bring Danny Smith back year after year when he is consistently Mediocre to bad. 

[Dcash4]

3 hours ago, warfelg said:

Especially offensively. He gave all his OC’s way too much leeway to do what they want. Only time he really interjects is going for 4th down or going for 2. And who knows maybe he was in on the planning of holding Mason back, but there’s been times under Fichtner where Tomlin looks flabbergasted by the playcall. Like the wildcat INT by Samuels. When they came off the field Tomlin just had this look like he had no clue what happened. 

What killed me about this is that Tomlin even spoke to this earlier in the week. Said the Wildcat and "things of that nature" dont work after you put it out there on tape. Baltimore would be prepared for it. Did Fichtner not think that? Did Tomlin not relay the message to the coaches? Did he just think he doesnt have to?

Even inside of the game, the INT came after a change of possession TV timeout. Tomlin isn't in the ear of the offense or doesn't have veto power in that room? The second poor usage of the wildcat came after a challenge review. Again, are you not in the ear of guys or do you just not care?

Tomlin spoke to the wildcat being ineffective to a team that's ready for it. He even said that the Ravens would be ready for it. Yet in two separate instances in which you should have ample time to communicate to your coordinator -- hey this is stupid -- we stuck with the poor play call and lost out both times. 

[MOSteelers56]

19 hours ago, 3rivers said:

if you were familiar with football in the late 70's and 80's, it was quite different. I am not sure how many years left I have watching this

That's not why I struggle with it. Football is getting rough to watch because we've learned so much more about how dangerous it is for the human brain. Every tackle I cringe, waiting for the next one to be the end of some poor kids life. Plus, I'm getting older and I find it weird to be rooting for a bunch of dudes that are younger than me. The game is also to chopped up with booze ads, penalties, and reviews. Add in the corruption of the NFL. Doesn't help that I find the franchise QB of the team I root for absolutely revolting. 

Also, there are a lot of things far and away more important to care about. It was a lot easier to care when I was in my teens and early twenties and it seemed like the world was just fine. 

[August4th]

19 minutes ago, MOSteelers56 said:

That's not why I struggle with it. Football is getting rough to watch because we've learned so much more about how dangerous it is for the human brain. Every tackle I cringe, waiting for the next one to be the end of some poor kids life. Plus, I'm getting older and I find it weird to be rooting for a bunch of dudes that are younger than me. The game is also to chopped up with booze ads, penalties, and reviews. Add in the corruption of the NFL. Doesn't help that I find the franchise QB of the team I root for absolutely revolting. 

Also, there are a lot of things far and away more important to care about. It was a lot easier to care when I was in my teens and early twenties and it seemed like the world was just fine. 

I'm starting to feel the same

I still get enjoyment/anger during the game, but those feelings fade 5 minutes after the game ends. I'm always going to watch, but I not as emotionally invested as I used to be. its just a game

[VigilantZombie]

I will still watch our games this season but my level of excitement wont be the same knowing there is no chance we make the playoffs.

The coaching staff will have a built in excuse because of Ben being injured.

We dont have first round pick, I still dont have an issue with Fitzpatrick. What I do have an issue with is the idea of Butler and Fichtner being our coordinators next season.

On top of that, I think if we in fact arent going to be able to resign Hargrave, we should trade him before the deadline, cut Moncrief, trade Chickillo (even if it's for a 2021 7th), and maybe even trade Vince Williams and Artie Burns. Recoup some picks and make sure in the offseason we get an OLB. Having said that I truly believe this FO will resign Bud Dupree.

[MOSteelers56]

16 minutes ago, August4th said:

I'm starting to feel the same

I still get enjoyment/anger during the game, but those feelings fade 5 minutes after the game ends. I'm always going to watch, but I not as emotionally invested as I used to be. its just a game

Yeah, I used to get really down when we'd lose. Now, just meh. I generally don't watch whole games anymore either. 

[Dcash4]

I know this is going to go wild probably....

But if the Redskins wanna give us that Gruden trade deal for Tomlin? 

[Steeler Hitman]

53 minutes ago, 3rivers said:

BB will take chances and gladly make adjustments for the plan accordingly. That  isn't the case with the Steelers staff, very stubborn, set in their ways among other detrimental attributes. If BB was coaching this team, they could be 5-0 or 4-1, not 1-4 that's for sure. 

BB changed as a head coach. He was very close to being casts as another Norv Turner type (Guy who  is a better coordinator than HC). He was fired from Cleveland and very close to being fired in New England as well.  I am not going to jump on the team would do this or that nor am I throwing rocks at Coach T.  I didn't like some of the decisions and the team isn't executing on offense to give them a fighting chance to win.  Some is scheme and some is players execution. Losing is rarely any one person.  As HC, you take a lot of the glory and unfortunately the blame. 

to win they need a better/legit OC.

He needs to utilize the skills of his players better. He may need to be more creative.  Five straight games of three and out on opening drives.  It is hard to be successful with a #2 and #3 QB.  Is it that OC Fitchner's play calling improved or did Duck Dynasty take more chances getting the ball to the same WR's who couldn't get open?

More important, the OL needs to be put on notice, coach and players. The only one I would keep for sure right now would be DDC and he isn't playing his best either. Feiler is ok, could be decent. Pouncey is and has been overrated and gets pushed around in the run game. Foster shouldn't be starting and AV is having his worst year, maybe his time is up ? Get an OL that will run block, and plays are made all the time, keep TOP and score that way and wear the  opponent out. That also opens up play action .

You lose a HOF player/Coach that everyone loved. Coach Munchak knows the nuances of the game as a player and was able to coach that.  We have OlLs who are better at pass blocking than being road graders.  The team made that choice.  You hope to have players who are adept at both.  Most are good at one or the other. To the OL's credit, they have kept the QB protected well for the most part.  Our rushing attack has been hurting and unfortunately, that is what is needed to help spark the offense and help a second year back-up QB.

The D made plays btw, but the offense never got as many points as they should have. Right now, this team is being exposed for having a terrible OC, a HC that allows that, and being soft in the run game on both sides, mainly on offense though. 

Like you and most fans, I am disappointed in the play and team results.  One can argue the Steelers have lost to four play-off caliber teams. One can also argue that the Steelers are showing that they cannot beat play-off caliber teams.  Competing and hanging with is not the Steelers standard.  As coach T says, "The standard is the standard!"  We measure W's and L's. 

[August4th]

4 minutes ago, Dcash4 said:

I know this is going to go wild probably....

But if the Redskins wanna give us that Gruden trade deal for Tomlin? 

I doubt this tomlin to DC thing happens, but the last 8 months or so, have showed that anything can happen with this team on or off the field. I wouldn't be shocked if news broke of tomlin to DC during SB weekend.

[Dcash4]

6 minutes ago, August4th said:

I doubt this tomlin to DC thing happens, but the last 8 months or so, have showed that anything can happen with this team on or off the field. I wouldn't be shocked if news broke of tomlin to DC during SB weekend.

Yeah I would think its super unlikey, but ultimately depends on what Tomlin wants and what the future of the Steelers is. 

Its clear things are not going great right now. Colbert is leaving soon, Ben will be gone -- what does Tomlin really want from this point forward? Does he want to do a complete transition here and work with a new GM too?

If Washington gave him the "all inclusive" deal where he could be in charge of everything the timing might be right. But that organization is volatile, so I gotta think its tough to WANT that.

[August4th]

22 minutes ago, Dcash4 said:

If Washington gave him the "all inclusive" deal where he could be in charge of everything the timing might be right. But that organization is volatile, so I gotta think its tough to WANT that.

I think Snyder would be desperate enough to offer a "big name" coach a huge deal. That fanbase is on life support, so trading for tomlin might breath life back into that organization. I doubt it happens, but man if it did.. would be franchise altering (getting a new coach, staff and draft picks with Ben/colbert futures being elephants in the room)

Edited October 7, 2019 by August4th