How do we fix the QB in 2020

[topwop1]

12 hours ago, WindyCity said:

Agreed. The Tribune Report was pretty damning. Not doing your due diligence on Watson, not involving the coaching staff in the process.

Reeks of Hubris

Only thing I can think of is that he knew John Fox would not be here to coach the team much longer so he did not factor his opinion too much into the equation.  Also Fox is a defensive coach so despite what he had to say about QBs at the time could they really have taken his opinion with much weight?

From accounts of what happened during this process Pace had all of management/scouting and the majority of the offensive staff at the time and on board with Tru as the #1 rated QB so to say that this decision came down to just one person's conviction (as Pace would like to say) on the player is a little shortsighted.  This was a collective organizational decision and I don't believe you can squarely blame Pace for it if it ends up not working out.

[topwop1]

13 hours ago, WindyCity said:

That is why Nagy should be here and I agree he should be.

Pretend for a second that we are there, because we are.

Why should Pace be involved in picking the next QB?

Because Pace doesn't just make picks on his own.  I don't know if you really understand how the draft process works but board player rankings are usually done by consensus and not by one person's feeling on a particular player.

You want to get rid of the GM and then what, hire an entirely brand new scouting staff as well?  

Like I said IF and WHEN they have to replace Mitch, Nagy will be around this time to have a say in who that player should be and it will be a collective decision, as is usually the case, when it comes to rankings draft prospects.

[WindyCity]

Just now, topwop1 said:

Because Pace doesn't just make picks on his own.  I don't know if you really understand how the draft process works but board player rankings are usually done by consensus and not by one person's feeling on a particular player.

You want to get rid of the GM and then what, hire an entirely brand new scouting staff as well?  

Like I said IF and WHEN they have to replace Mitch, Nagy will be around this time to have a say in who that player should be and it will be a collective decision, as is usually the case, when it comes to rankings draft prospects.

I 100% understand how it works.

I would fire Pace and his top LTs and let the new GM decide on what scouts stay. Many of the Bears scouts have survived regime changes. But when I say fire Pace I am saying fire him and whoever the new guy doesn't want.

 

It wasn't last time. Last time it was Pace and his inner circle who had their conviction and consensus meetings.

[WindyCity]

8 minutes ago, topwop1 said:

Only thing I can think of is that he knew John Fox would not be here to coach the team much longer so he did not factor his opinion too much into the equation.  Also Fox is a defensive coach so despite what he had to say about QBs at the time could they really have taken his opinion with much weight?

From accounts of what happened during this process Pace had all of management/scouting and the majority of the offensive staff at the time and on board with Tru as the #1 rated QB so to say that this decision came down to just one person's conviction (as Pace would like to say) on the player is a little shortsighted.  This was a collective organizational decision and I don't believe you can squarely blame Pace for it if it ends up not working out.

The coaching staff has already been flushed. You then flush the otherside of the equation.

If you do not think that this was a Pace led move then I think you are being generous to him.

 

[WindyCity]

You still have not answered the question so I will ask it differently,

 

Why should Pace and his top LTs be allowed to make the next pick at QB?

[topwop1]

13 hours ago, WindyCity said:

It is the single most devastating move since Jerry passed on Aaron Rodgers to take Ced Benson

This is a ridiculous statement. I was never a huge fan of Jerry Angelo but you do know that 22 other teams also passed on selecting a future hall of fame QB in Rodgers?

If anything 49ers fans should be upset since they are the only team to have taken a QB before Rodgers.

Plus Bears had drafted Grossman in the 1st just 2 years prior. I know he sucked but that's probably why they didn't draft another 1st round QB 2 years later.

[WindyCity]

Just now, topwop1 said:

This is a ridiculous statement. I was never a huge fan of Jerry Angelo but you do know that 22 other teams also passed on selecting a future hall of fame QB in Rodgers?

If anything 49ers fans should be upset since they are the only team to have taken a QB before Rodgers.

Plus Bears had drafted Grossman in the 1st just 2 years prior. I know he sucked but that's probably why they didn't draft another 1st round QB 2 years later.

I am not talking about what other teams did, although they did screw up.

Passing on Rodgers was a massive set back for this franchise. Grossman or not, we knew he sucked at that point.

Drop Rodgers on to that team and the 2006 Super Bowl is a Bears romp.

[topwop1]

1 minute ago, WindyCity said:

The coaching staff has already been flushed. You then flush the otherside of the equation.

If you do not think that this was a Pace led move then I think you are being generous to him.

 

Of course Pace has the final call  on matters but he didn't put Mitch at the top the board on his own.  C'mon man let's be real here.  

1 minute ago, WindyCity said:

You still have not answered the question so I will ask it differently,

 

Why should Pace and his top LTs be allowed to make the next pick at QB?

Because I believe they have done a solid job overall of adding talent and building this team up from the dark days of years past and next time around they will actually have an offensive head coach involved in the decision making process.  

If you believe that Nagy deserves another shot with a QB of his liking then so does Pace considering he is the one who brought Nagy in here.

[topwop1]

8 minutes ago, WindyCity said:

I 100% understand how it works.

I would fire Pace and his top LTs and let the new GM decide on what scouts stay. Many of the Bears scouts have survived regime changes. But when I say fire Pace I am saying fire him and whoever the new guy doesn't want.

 

It wasn't last time. Last time it was Pace and his inner circle who had their conviction and consensus meetings.

So Dowell Loggains and Dave Ragone are in Pace's inner circle too then?  Because there is specific information out there that they were involved in the drafting of Mitch as well.

[WindyCity]

1 minute ago, topwop1 said:

Of course Pace has the final call  on matters but he didn't put Mitch at the top the board on his own.  C'mon man let's be real here.  

Because I believe they have done a solid job overall of adding talent and building this team up from the dark days of years past and next time around they will actually have an offensive head coach involved in the decision making process.  

If you believe that Nagy deserves another shot with a QB of his liking then so does Pace considering he is the one who brought Nagy in here.

I think Pace is a third wheel who is not required to pick the next QB and who offers very little except a weak resume of QB evaluations.

I would thank Pace for building a solid roster and then go get someone from an organization that has had success drafting and developing a QB and who does not have multiple failures on his resume to support Nagy.

I think Nagy should get a shot because he is a former QB, he comes from a QB successful tree, and he should know what he wants. I do not care who hired him, that is not relevant to his past experience with QBs.

[WindyCity]

2 minutes ago, topwop1 said:

So Dowell Loggains and Dave Ragone are in Pace's inner circle too then?  Because there is specific information out there that they were involved in the drafting of Mitch as well.

Ragone was a Watson guy, or at least that is what the Tribune article said. So I am not sure how involved he was.

I do not know about Loggains, I am not sure he has commented on it.

[topwop1]

Just now, WindyCity said:

I think Pace is a third wheel who is not required to pick the next QB and who offers very little except a weak resume of QB evaluations.

I would thank Pace for building a solid roster and then go get someone from an organization that has had success drafting and developing a QB and who does not have multiple failures on his resume to support Nagy.

I think Nagy should get a shot because he is a former QB, he comes from a QB successful tree, and he should know what he wants. I do not care who hired him, that is not relevant to his past experience with QBs.

Look I know how you feel about Pace.  Reality is that he will in all likelihood be the GM of this team going forward and will likely get another crack at the QB can with Nagy, if Mitch doesn't pan out.  Still a lot of things that can happen in the next year a half. Let's not jump off the ledge.

[topwop1]

3 minutes ago, WindyCity said:

Ragone was a Watson guy, or at least that is what the Tribune article said. So I am not sure how involved he was.

I do not know about Loggains, I am not sure he has commented on it.

You sure you read the article.  Here you go:

Quote

He considered it an important piece of the scouting pie. For months, Pace had kept his evaluations to himself, not wanting to influence his subordinates. As the reports returned — from area scout Chris Prescott, from national scout Ryan Kessenich, from college scouting director Mark Sadowski, from Lucas, from Loggains — the consensus in support of Trubisky energized Pace.

However, prioritizing secrecy in the pre-draft process created an unusual barrier between the personnel department and the coaching staff. Whereas in Kansas City and Houston, offensive-minded coaches Andy Reid and Bill O’Brien were in the center of the quarterback evaluations, the Bears were, for all intents and purposes, drafting Trubisky for the next coaching staff, a group that was a full season away from arriving.

 

[WindyCity]

2 minutes ago, topwop1 said:

Look I know how you feel about Pace.  Reality is that he will in all likelihood be the GM of this team going forward and will likely get another crack at the QB can with Nagy, if Mitch doesn't pan out.  Still a lot of things that can happen in the next year a half. Let's not jump off the ledge.

No one is jumping off a ledge, although pushing Pace off would be a win for the Bears.

Him being here is not the same as saying he should be here. The McCaskeys will not fire him because they owe him too much money, they are not equipped for a GM search, and they are not good owners.

Pace is dead weight to the next phase of this team.

[WindyCity]

We know exactly who to fire

 from area scout Chris Prescott, from national scout Ryan Kessenich, from college scouting director Mark Sadowski, from Lucas, from Loggains