topwop1 Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 (edited) 13 minutes ago, WindyCity said: I do appreciate the impassioned defense of the guy who essentially torpedoed this competitive window. It's too easy to just blame one guy. There is just not enough evidence for me yet to say that they need to completely give up and move on from Mitch. What they absolutely need to do is to push him hard and make sure he is set up properly to be successful. Once they do that and he still fails then I will be accepting that he is definitely not the guy. But given what we've seen from the rest of the offense this season I do not think you can say that we can just plug in (insert any elite QB) and that we'd be automatic SB contenders. Football doesn't work like that. Edited November 15, 2019 by topwop1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted November 15, 2019 Author Share Posted November 15, 2019 2 minutes ago, topwop1 said: It's too easy to just blame one guy. There is just not enough evidence for me yet to say that they need to completely give up and move on from Mitch. What they absolutely need to do is to push him hard and make sure he is set up properly to be successful. Once they do that and he still fails then I will be accepting that he is definitely not the guy. But given what we've seen from the rest of the offense this season I do not think you can say that we can just plug in (insert any elite QB) and that we'd be automatic SB contenders. Football doesn't work like that. We all said on draft night that Pace was tied to Trubisky and now we want to change that because we went one and done in the playoffs? Again, when I say fire Pace there will be multiple player personnel people getting flushed with him, but it is easier not listing them all as Pace is the figure head. There is a mountain of evidence. If you need more evidence I assume that you still think asbestos is safe or smoking is healthy? We would be contenders with adequate QB play. We currently have the worst QB in the league under center and it is dragging everyone else down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted November 15, 2019 Author Share Posted November 15, 2019 Just so you know this is not personal with Pace and I was a fan until Trubisky was exposed this year. If I made this type of catastrophic mistake I would expect you to fire me as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topwop1 Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 1 hour ago, WindyCity said: We all said on draft night that Pace was tied to Trubisky and now we want to change that because we went one and done in the playoffs? Again, when I say fire Pace there will be multiple player personnel people getting flushed with him, but it is easier not listing them all as Pace is the figure head. There is a mountain of evidence. If you need more evidence I assume that you still think asbestos is safe or smoking is healthy? We would be contenders with adequate QB play. We currently have the worst QB in the league under center and it is dragging everyone else down. Again that is a personal belief which I disagree with. You cannot sit there and tell me that guys like Mayfield, Darnold, Haskins, Rudolph, Finley and Allen (DEN) are all better than Mitch. I know that is not a high bar but to say he's the absolute worst in the NFL under center right now is highly arguable and not exactly true. The evidence you are referring to is a small sample size. You didn't say these things after last season so why now? And what exact metrics lead you to believe that Mitch is a foregone conclusion and cannot be repaired? I'm genuinely curious to know. Again I am not saying he is going to turn out to be what we all want but how can you definitively say that he is a bust? You just cannot at this point IMO. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topwop1 Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 On another note is anyone in here willing to bring in Colin Kaepernick as someone to push/compete with Mitch next year? Nagy seemed to have high regard for Kap when asked the other day he said something along the lines of that he was a real weapon when he was active a few seasons back. If I'm Pace I can get on board with this seeing that it would be a low risk move. Won't cost much and will give the team a backup QB option with a skill set that fits Nagy's offense and who comes with playoff success/experience. Mitch needs to be legitimately pushed in the last year of his deal and I think this would be a good option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted November 15, 2019 Author Share Posted November 15, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, topwop1 said: Again that is a personal belief which I disagree with. You cannot sit there and tell me that guys like Mayfield, Darnold, Haskins, Rudolph, Finley and Allen (DEN) are all better than Mitch. I know that is not a high bar but to say he's the absolute worst in the NFL under center right now is highly arguable and not exactly true. The evidence you are referring to is a small sample size. You didn't say these things after last season so why now? And what exact metrics lead you to believe that Mitch is a foregone conclusion and cannot be repaired? I'm genuinely curious to know. Again I am not saying he is going to turn out to be what we all want but how can you definitively say that he is a bust? You just cannot at this point IMO. Because after last season the expectation was that he would take a step up from inconsistently average. Instead of taking a step forward and improving he has cratered. You say it is a small sample size, but he has 32 games. 2 Full seasons of games and this is where he sits, He is currently 31st in QBR, only higher than Mariota who us benched. He is currently 35th in QB rating He is currently 27th in DVOA If he is not the worst he is right in the team photo and conversation. Last season being viewed as a success was contingent on this season being better that the very pedestrian year last year. Edited November 15, 2019 by WindyCity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted November 15, 2019 Author Share Posted November 15, 2019 15 minutes ago, topwop1 said: On another note is anyone in here willing to bring in Colin Kaepernick as someone to push/compete with Mitch next year? Nagy seemed to have high regard for Kap when asked the other day he said something along the lines of that he was a real weapon when he was active a few seasons back. If I'm Pace I can get on board with this seeing that it would be a low risk move. Won't cost much and will give the team a backup QB option with a skill set that fits Nagy's offense and who comes with playoff success/experience. Mitch needs to be legitimately pushed in the last year of his deal and I think this would be a good option. I would be fine with Kaep, he is cheap and has some talent. Pace won't do it. I do not even think he is attending the workout. It would be too big a spot light on his flailing QB. Last thing he wants is people chanting Kaep every game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted November 15, 2019 Author Share Posted November 15, 2019 Mitch is on pace for a 2780 yard, 16 TDs, 6 INTs season. 2780 yards and 16 TDs would be by anyone standards an abysmal season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topwop1 Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 20 minutes ago, WindyCity said: Because after last season the expectation was that he would take a step up from inconsistently average. Instead of taking a step forward and improving he has cratered. You say it is a small sample size, but he has 32 games. 2 Full seasons of games and this is where he sits, He is currently 31st in QBR, only higher than Mariota who us benched. He is currently 35th in QB rating He is currently 27th in DVOA Last season was being viewed as a success was contingent on this season being better that the very pedestrian year last year. Exactly 2 full seasons...just 2 or 34 games to be exact...and you want to write him off already. I still think that's ridiculous regardless of whatever statistics you throw out there. Also can you even tell me the difference between QBR, QB rating and what DVOA means? Isn't that some football outsiders made up stat that is totally subjective? Fact is Trubisky was a very raw prospect when Bears selected him 2nd overall. Whoever expected him to meet his ceiling 34 games into his pro career is full of ****. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 1 minute ago, topwop1 said: Exactly 2 full seasons...just 2 or 34 games to be exact...and you want to write him off already. I still think that's ridiculous regardless of whatever statistics you throw out there. Also can you even tell me the difference between QBR, QB rating and what DVOA means? Isn't that some football outsiders made up stat that is totally subjective? Fact is Trubisky was a very raw prospect when Bears selected him 2nd overall. Whoever expected him to meet his ceiling 34 games into his pro career is full of ****. I see your point but no one expected him to look this bad at this point I believe his problems are mental so it's totally possible that he comes back and gets good here it elsewhere, but he hasn't really shown anything to that effect. Let's hope! Also, I hope kaep gets a job, but I don't think Nagy would be to best person to adapt to his fairly unique skills and faults. Nagy has not exactly put together a scheme that fits his current QB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted November 15, 2019 Author Share Posted November 15, 2019 2 minutes ago, topwop1 said: Exactly 2 full seasons...just 2 or 34 games to be exact...and you want to write him off already. I still think that's ridiculous regardless of whatever statistics you throw out there. Also can you even tell me the difference between QBR, QB rating and what DVOA means? Isn't that some football outsiders made up stat that is totally subjective? Fact is Trubisky was a very raw prospect when Bears selected him 2nd overall. Whoever expected him to meet his ceiling 34 games into his pro career is full of ****. I didn't expect him to hit his ceiling, but I did not expect him to bottom out after 34 games. 34 games is not a short time and not an unreasonable amount of time to expect to see some improvement. Instead we have seen regression. QBR, QB Rating, DVOA are just to give you a cross section of how bad he has been by all metrics. Please find me any analysis, data, rating that tells us he is not one of the worst starting QBs in the league. Do you really think that he has not been absolutely pathetic this season? Because if you think he has been anything less than horrible you are delusional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topwop1 Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 1 minute ago, WindyCity said: I didn't expect him to hit his ceiling, but I did not expect him to bottom out after 34 games. 34 games is not a short time and not an unreasonable amount of time to expect to see some improvement. Instead we have seen regression. QBR, QB Rating, DVOA are just to give you a cross section of how bad he has been by all metrics. Please find me any analysis, data, rating that tells us he is not one of the worst starting QBs in the league. Do you really think that he has not been absolutely pathetic this season? Because if you think he has been anything less than horrible you are delusional. I didn't say he wasn't. I've openly criticized his play this year. Go back and look at some game day posts for reference if you don't believe me. All I am saying is that we cannot conclude he is a bust just yet because of how this season has gone so far. There's too many different factors that go into this equation and it cannot be solely pinned on Mitch. We need to know that Mitch was given a fair chance to succeed here before we move on from him. So far that has not been the case. Year 1 half a season with Fox and a garbage offense and talent around him. Year 2 first year under Nagy promising year and now year 3 struggling but offense as a whole is as well. O-line has sucked badly and TEs are non existent plus WRs are dropping an abnormally high number of passes this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted November 15, 2019 Author Share Posted November 15, 2019 2 minutes ago, topwop1 said: I didn't say he wasn't. I've openly criticized his play this year. Go back and look at some game day posts for reference if you don't believe me. All I am saying is that we cannot conclude he is a bust just yet because of how this season has gone so far. There's too many different factors that go into this equation and it cannot be solely pinned on Mitch. We need to know that Mitch was given a fair chance to succeed here before we move on from him. So far that has not been the case. Year 1 half a season with Fox and a garbage offense and talent around him. Year 2 first year under Nagy promising year and now year 3 struggling but offense as a whole is as well. O-line has sucked badly and TEs are non existent plus WRs are dropping an abnormally high number of passes this year. This is not a rebuilding team with the luxury of letting the QB take 4-5 years to play average football. The evidence is not in his favor. Most of the time when a QB sucks, they just suck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topwop1 Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 1 minute ago, WindyCity said: This is not a rebuilding team with the luxury of letting the QB take 4-5 years to play average football. The evidence is not in his favor. Most of the time when a QB sucks, they just suck. As long as the team continues to draft well (for the most part) and keep adding young talent then they should be able to let their QB develop and give him a fair shot. Mack will still be a dominant player well into his 30s. Guy is a freak and isn't going anywhere anytime soon (5 years left on his deal after this year). Hicks will also be here for the next 2 years at a minimum and at only 29 years old should still be a solid player for the next few years. Allen Robinson and Kyle Fuller are also younger guys with lots of good football still ahead of them. As much as people want to believe it is, these next 2 years are not SB year or bust for this team. Nagy was brought in specifically to develop Mitch. We have to let him do that to the full extent and not just give them 26 games together to determine that he's not the right guy. They invested too much in Mitch to give up this early. That said, yes, they should have a good back up plan at QB for next year. Just RELAX. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yomyyo Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, WindyCity said: We would be contenders with adequate QB play. Who was responsible for the contender bit? Edited November 15, 2019 by yomyyo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.