roger murdock Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 OBJ doesn't want his career wasted with a fat simpleton idiot head coach. Relationship is salvagable, all we have to do is cut the deadweight we need to cut anyway. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 I saw the injury in the jets game even when OBJ took it to the house... it was clear he had a core or muscle injury... It was easy to see that he was hobbled if a person has watched OBJ play and his movement.. On 9/17/2019 at 1:11 AM, Mind Character said: I know a lot people aren't talking about it, but OBJ does not look healthy at all. His route speed and movement dynamics were sluggish relative to the elite of elite movement athlete he's been in his career. On that TD run, a healthy OBJ houses that with ease, but you could see his movement not as fluid, him laboring, and his acceleration/speed diminished. Now, when you're an elite athlete with crazy speed that still means you house that thing like he did lol. Will be something to watch going forward. I hope he can stay healthy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 39 minutes ago, Mind Character said: If you're OBJ, why would you want to stay here? OBJ wants his talent maximized more than he wants to be traded. At what point is he going to have to start maximizing his opportunities though? Save a play or two he’s been entirely pedestrian all season. 39 minutes ago, Mind Character said: You don't trade generational talent with multiple years left on their contract at a cost controlled point. It would be madness. After one year I agree. People are impatient as hell. 39 minutes ago, Mind Character said: Trading OBJ is so far down the list well below things like getting a different OC and QB coach. Agreed. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawgX Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 Wait, people are serious when they say they want to trade OBJ at this point? Man, I love this forum. 😂 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 39 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: At what point is he going to have to start maximizing his opportunities though? Save a play or two he’s been entirely pedestrian all season. He has maximized his opportunities this season. He's pedestrian because of his utilization and not pedestrian otherwise. The analytics are clear when it comes to WR success much like RB redzone TDs success it is opportunities driven. We can all fixate on 4 and/or mis-routes but when a player like him is catching 90 + balls with 135+ targets the great and spectacular averages stands out over and above the lower percentage occurrence bad plays or mistakes. When he does get opportunities more often then not they are late/missed balls, boundary shots, or in garbage time. The instances where he has not taken advantage of an opportunity are the outliers few and far between. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 Just now, Mind Character said: He has maximized his opportunities this season. He's pedestrian because of his utilization and not pedestrian otherwise. The analytics are clear when it comes to WR success much like RB redzone TDs success it is opportunities driven. We can all fixate on 4 and/or mis-routes but when a player like him is catching 90 + balls with 135+ targets the great and spectacular averages stands out over and above the lower percentage occurrence bad plays or mistakes. When he does get opportunities more often then not they are late/missed balls, boundary shots, or in garbage time. The instances where he has not taken advantage of an opportunity are the outliers few and far between. I guess we’re just watching different games, I haven’t seen him do a damned thing other than a nice catch on a crossing route near the sideline and a slant. As far as opportunities, he’s 12th in the league in total targets and has over 100. https://www.fantasypros.com/nfl/reports/targets/ He failed to get his feet down and hold on to 2 balls today that would have added a solid 50 yards to his totals. That’s not maximizing opportunities. For a guy with supposedly unreal hands, he’s dropped a number of easy passes and failed to make a lot of contested catches. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 I’m sure he’s been open and has been missed on some throws, but how much of that is on him for not being available to build chemistry with Baker during camp? i don’t know what the issue is, but he and Baker couldn’t look more out of sync. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 16 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: I guess we’re just watching different games, I haven’t seen him do a damned thing other than a nice catch on a crossing route near the sideline and a slant. As far as opportunities, he’s 12th in the league in total targets and has over 100. https://www.fantasypros.com/nfl/reports/targets/ He failed to get his feet down and hold on to 2 balls today that would have added a solid 50 yards to his totals. That’s not maximizing opportunities. For a guy with supposedly unreal hands, he’s dropped a number of easy passes and failed to make a lot of contested catches. Sometimes i think you're trolling. That out of bounds catch on the sideline was a Spectacular attempt on a finger tips catch that only a handful of WRs could've even gotten close to completing. He had both feet down but just for a millisecond recaught the ball to secure it. Sheesh man.. the raw total numbers don't matter at all. Target number totals mean next to nothing in football scouting much like rushing attempts. They are context oriented with the same raw numbers for two different players telling completely different stories. The number that matters for pass catchers is quality targets not out-right targets. What you fail to understand is that he's always had misses in his game; however, it averages out to be utter nothingness over the course of the season given the number of his quality targets and spectacular and next level plays. He's missed 8 or so passes (4 true drops; 2 route integration issues; 3 contended). Given the nature of his targets he has maximized them imo. OBJ does not get quality opportunities and/or targets. It's that simple. I'm not sure how watching every snap including everything from good targets to when he's running free one on one and doesn't get a target to when it's a bad/late/missed throw to a clear out route non-target would lead one to believe that "OBJ is responsible for his lack of success and hasn't done a damn thing this season." If you watch that play and say to yourself "yeah he's not that good" then we just don't see football the same at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 2 minutes ago, Mind Character said: Sometimes i think you're trolling. That out of bounds catch on the sideline was a Spectacular attempt on a finger tips catch that only a handful of WRs could've even gotten close to completing. He had both feet down but just for a millisecond recaught the ball to secure it. Isn’t that what we’re paying him to do? It’s not like I’m expecting Ratley to make that play. 2 minutes ago, Mind Character said: Sheesh man.. the raw total numbers don't matter at all. Only if they completed refute a point you’re trying to make, amirite? 2 minutes ago, Mind Character said: Target number totals mean next to nothing in football scouting much like rushing attempts. They are context oriented with the same raw numbers for two different players telling completely different stories. The number that matters for pass catchers is quality targets not out-right targets. What you fail to understand is that he's always had misses in his game; however, it averages out to be utter nothingness over the course of the season given the number of his quality targets and spectacular and next level plays. He's missed 8 or so passes (4 true drops; 2 route integration issues; 3 contended). Given the nature of his targets he has maximized them imo. OBJ does not get quality opportunities and/or targets. It's that simple. I'm not sure how watching every snap including everything from good targets to when he's running free one on one and doesn't get a target to when it's a bad/late/missed throw to a clear out route non-target would lead one to believe that "OBJ is responsible for his lack of success and hasn't done a damn thing this season." If you watch that play and say to yourself "yeah he's not that good" then we just don't see football the same at all. I never said he wasn’t that good, he is, clearly. I also think it’s funny you assume all of these misses are on Baker, and not a wrong route by OBJ, etc? You know know something we don’t? My only point is if there are timing issues, part of that blame (the majority perhaps?) might be at the feet of the guy who didn’t participate in camp and, who no fault of his own, is injured and unable to practice all week. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonanza23 Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: I guess we’re just watching different games, I haven’t seen him do a damned thing other than a nice catch on a crossing route near the sideline and a slant. As far as opportunities, he’s 12th in the league in total targets and has over 100. https://www.fantasypros.com/nfl/reports/targets/ He failed to get his feet down and hold on to 2 balls today that would have added a solid 50 yards to his totals. That’s not maximizing opportunities. For a guy with supposedly unreal hands, he’s dropped a number of easy passes and failed to make a lot of contested catches. OBJ is bad because of Baker. Duh Btw there are plenty of rumors going around that Odell doesn’t run the proper routes. Not in itself a bad thing. But it is a bad thing if you don’t work with your qb to let him know where you’ll be in certain scenarios. It’s a chemistry thing. Odell not being in training camp is not a good way to build that chemistry with your qb especially if you go rogue on your routes. Edited December 9, 2019 by Bonanza23 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 5 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: Isn’t that what we’re paying him to do? It’s not like I’m expecting Ratley to make that play. Quote Of course, but I don't know you see a spectacular catch like that and say "yeah see looky there he's the problem" instead of "that's proof of exceptional ability, his recatch was off by a millisecond, that's an example of why OBJ should get more quality targets because more often then not he'll make the play." 5 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: I also think it’s funny you assume all of these misses are on Baker, and not a wrong route by OBJ, etc? You know know something we don’t? I've properly attributed that the chemistry and getting on the same page is on both of them. I've also primarily attributed their issues to the play-calling and not to Baker. There are many routes and plays that are staples of our offense and others for which when you see them unfold you don't have to guess whether or not the WR is running the right route. You can rely on the leverage of the defense, the secondary alignment, the route combos, past Browns plays, and past similar offensive staples to figure out if a given receiver is likely running the right route. There are variations of course but it's really not that complicated and more often then not it's not some mysterious unknowable guessing game that you're painting it to be. So, on a clear out route when the ball is hung inside and thrown late it's not difficult to see that the ball is thrown late and hung inside. Or when there's a post-corner route option route that can be turn into an out route if the leverage suggests it should and the QB throws the out misreading the leverage or doesn't even look at the open post corner route or is late with his eyes and the ball it's not hard to see at all. It also wouldn't be hard to see if the route pacing is off because of the WR over selling a fake instead of getting into his route or not getting a good release off the line or not having a crisp efficient cut or route break. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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