DTMW78 Posted February 10, 2020 Author Share Posted February 10, 2020 Which DE would you guys prefer to bring back, Jordan or Moyawa? @drfrey13 @Darbsk @OG_C2X Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darbsk Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 33 minutes ago, DTMW78 said: Which DE would you guys prefer to bring back, Jordan or Moyawa? @drfrey13 @Darbsk @OG_C2X This is a tricky one, Mayowa had the better pass rushing impact though his snaps tailed off toward the end of the season, we used Ferrell inside a lot more than we probably should have. Jordan came in midway through the year and had snaps rushing from inside and looked half decent too. If you want a versatile defender then bringing back Jordan makes sense and he can rush with Maxx and Ferrell. IF you're not targeting DE at all then Mayowa makes sense though his snaps could eat into Ferrells. Id try and bring them both back if the numbers are reasonable but if I could only bring back 1 then probably Jordan for his versatility and he should be much cheaper. 😀 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OG_C2X Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 Jordan and not ev en clpse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrey13 Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 7 hours ago, DTMW78 said: Which DE would you guys prefer to bring back, Jordan or Moyawa? @drfrey13 @Darbsk @OG_C2X In my opinion it comes down to what kind of player you are looking for. Mayowa is an efficient situational pass rusher and Jordan is a DE that kicks inside on pass downs. I would want to bring back both if we can but I like Mayowa more. It might depend on what you think Ferrell's role will be. If Ferrell can stay on the field full time and rush from the outside then keep Jordan but if you see Ferrell still kicking inside on pass downs then you want Mayowa. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrey13 Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 6 hours ago, Darbsk said: This is a tricky one, Mayowa had the better pass rushing impact though his snaps tailed off toward the end of the season, we used Ferrell inside a lot more than we probably should have. Jordan came in midway through the year and had snaps rushing from inside and looked half decent too. If you want a versatile defender then bringing back Jordan makes sense and he can rush with Maxx and Ferrell. IF you're not targeting DE at all then Mayowa makes sense though his snaps could eat into Ferrells. Id try and bring them both back if the numbers are reasonable but if I could only bring back 1 then probably Jordan for his versatility and he should be much cheaper. 😀 Almost my exact thoughts. I do not know what happened with Mayowa late in the year but for the first half he was producing the same statistically as Robert Quinn but with less than half the snaps. I think Mayowa is the exact type of player we need at DE so we do not take a lot of PT away from Crosby and Ferrell. He produces with limited snaps. Jordan is similar in that the only snaps he would take away from them would be when Ferrell was rushing from the inside which I did not like. I do not think we can go wrong either way or even if we bring back both. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darbsk Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 2 hours ago, OG_C2X said: Jordan and not ev en clpse Why not even close, care to elaborate? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Raider Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 I think Howard would be a fantastic get, I'd offer the first or second third and an additional 5th or 6th this year, possibly moved up to a 4th if you can trade picks next year. Hes a fantastic cover man in a situation where some of the best would struggle, he's in his prime, he's locked up long term, on a contract that isn't terrible and will get better with time, and we have cap space. A second is fair value, but a lot of guys in mocks are reluctant to give up first or second round picks, and a rebuilding team like the Dolphins could be interested in the third and the fifth long term over what Howard brings right now. Can't hurt to try. Outside of that I second trying to land Trevathan. He's had some injuries, but he's extremely talented and our LB core is a total joke. Landing Littleton was a very nice get, but IMO we still need two more starters and I like the idea of two vets and a guy at 19 or one of the 3rds (assuming Simmons doesnt fall to 12). Gives you a mix of youth, proven production, and leadership/less demand on a young guy to be the leader of the defense. I obviously wouldn't pay him anything outrageous but for a reasonable deal (which often means an overpayment in real life in mock drafts) would be a nice get. If you could pull off both moves for Howard and Trevathan, plus Littleton, and maybe a guy like Hargrave at 12 or someone like Kenneth Murray/Patrick Queen at 19 the defense would be the most talented it's been in quite some time. Especially if Maxx, Mullen, and Ferrell can take a step in year two. Having Joseph back, getting Abram back on the field, plus Mullen and Howard makes for a very good secondary (I'm very high on Mullen and his long term potential) that has a nice mix of veteran presence, youth, and upside. Mullen and Howard could IMO be a top 5-10 duo for the next few years. Then in the front seven you would be turning the LB core into at least solid, and maybe more depending on who is picked in the draft compared to the worst in the league. Both moves would give a ton of flexibility in the draft, you wouldn't HAVE to take a LB in the first, though you still could. You could add a blue chip prospect at either of the first two levels of the defense and make an improved unit an area of potentially real strength on this team. The only glaring need would be WR. But there wasn't/isn't anyone on the free agent market that was going to solve that problem unless you really believe AJ Green can come back to form from 2-3 years ago before all the injuries. It'd be going a long way into turning the defense around, the offense is set in the trenches, and at RB, and has good depth at WR outside of a top flight one. If you don't believe Carr is the guy to get you to the super bowl youve still done a fantastic job of building a solid overall team that would be a fantastic situation for the next signal caller to step into. And I am of the belief that Carr can still be good enough to win a championship with, but I would not be above upgrading him, but I'm an even bigger believer in setting up the softest landing for young QBs and that means a top flight OL, as many weapons as possible, a running back that can demand attention and take the pressure off, and a defense that is capable of winning the field position battle, and not forcing the young QB to have to win games early with his arm consistently in the beginning of his career. So even if you aren't able to upgrade from Carr in this mock, you'd still be doing a fantastic job at building a contender because we'd have a lot of those ingredients, which is more than most teams can say when they attempt to find their franchise QB. Sorry for the long post, started rambling a bit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OG_C2X Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 8 hours ago, Darbsk said: Why not even close, care to elaborate? Umm Dion was signed week 10. Week 11 was the only week Mayowa took more snaps then Dion. Dion averaged around 10 more snaps then Mayowa over those 7 games. And was way more versatile across the DL. Mayowa is and always was a JAG. Dion at some point had Elite potential. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DTMW78 Posted February 11, 2020 Author Share Posted February 11, 2020 I offered #81 and a 4th in 2021 and he said no. He wants #81+101 or #81+118+193 Both seem a little steep to me when I could just bid on one of the CB left in FA. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Raider Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 17 minutes ago, DTMW78 said: I offered #81 and a 4th in 2021 and he said no. He wants #81+101 or #81+118+193 Both seem a little steep to me when I could just bid on one of the CB left in FA. Thoughts? I'd take either deal. They're essentially the same value if you go off of the trade value chart. It essentially values Howard at the 70th pick in the draft. I may be higher on him than most, but I think he's a terrific scheme fit and is a top 10 corner in the NFL. Getting that for a high third is worth it to me personally. I don't think this class is one where you will find a corner of his caliber that late. He obviously has a bigger contract, but that comes because he's a proven player. And he's proven himself on a team without a ton of talent around him. I think the pairing of him and Mullen, plus Littleton, and the other pieces you could still add would go a long way in improving the defense. The only reason you don't make the deal is if you plan on packaging a couple thirds to try and get back into the second, but I think pick 19 could be a prime spot to move down, gain some draft capital back and still land guys that fit our needs. Howard has good man coverage skills, but he has had his fair share of penalties. That's concerning, but in 2018 he was first in the NFL with a passer rating of around 28 allowed in snaps where he played cover 2, cover 3, or quarters. He's also very good in run defense. I think a pairing with Mullen allows us to maneuver around matchups and play to each guys strengths. He'll make about 13 million per year I believe and he'd essentially be locked into that for the next 2 years before being able to get out of the deal. I think the upside would be enough for me to roll the dice on making the move. But again I may be higher on Howard than most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OG_C2X Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 13 hours ago, drfrey13 said: Almost my exact thoughts. I do not know what happened with Mayowa late in the year but for the first half he was producing the same statistically as Robert Quinn but with less than half the snaps. I think Mayowa is the exact type of player we need at DE so we do not take a lot of PT away from Crosby and Ferrell. He produces with limited snaps. Jordan is similar in that the only snaps he would take away from them would be when Ferrell was rushing from the inside which I did not like. I do not think we can go wrong either way or even if we bring back both. When Jordan was signed. Ferrell stopped kicking inside. Jordan took on that role. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OG_C2X Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 1 hour ago, DTMW78 said: I offered #81 and a 4th in 2021 and he said no. He wants #81+101 or #81+118+193 Both seem a little steep to me when I could just bid on one of the CB left in FA. Thoughts? When did we get pick 101? I would counter 81 and 118. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DTMW78 Posted February 11, 2020 Author Share Posted February 11, 2020 3 minutes ago, OG_C2X said: When did we get pick 101? I would counter 81 and 118. You can see all the moves I've made so far in the op. Moved Gabe Jackson for #101+ a late pick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OG_C2X Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, DTMW78 said: You can see all the moves I've made so far in the op. Moved Gabe Jackson for #101+ a late pick That was dumb lol. But ok thanks for the heads up. I would counter with 81 and 118. Did scherff get tagged or is he available? Since you got rid of a top 10 OG better replace him with someone not named Denzelle Good Edited February 11, 2020 by OG_C2X Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrey13 Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 1 hour ago, OG_C2X said: When Jordan was signed. Ferrell stopped kicking inside. Jordan took on that role. That was my point. Neither Mayowa or Jordan would take away from the development of Crosby and Ferrell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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