NFL Draft Thread: Day 3

[e16bball]

I think the frustrating thing about the picks in Round 5-7 is that they were basically targeting “quality depth” players — backup OL, special teamers, etc. Which is cool, it’s pretty much what you’re usually looking for in the late rounds, some guys who can make the team and shore up the bottom of the roster. 

But that’s really not what the Redskins need, which I think is what makes it feel so unsatisfying. They don’t really need more young depth, they have it in spades all over the roster. Seriously, at basically every position they have a young guy or two that is either developmental or a hopeful potential starter or contributes on teams or something. It’s an extremely bottom-heavy roster.

What they need is starters. High-end players. They don’t need a bunch of young guys to compete for the last roster spots with the other young guys they took last year and the year before. I mean, you always need quality depth — but it’s not moving the needle. It’s like switching out the no-name bands in a festival lineup when there’s no headliners.

They needed a starting LT, a starting MLB, a starting TE, a starting LG, a starting CB, a starting FS, probably a starting WR, probably a starting SLB. And the offseason is basically over, and what they’ve gotten done is adding an all-world pass-rusher, a slot CB, a gadget RB/WR hybrid, a couple day 3 picks thrown at OT/WR, and a bunch of one-year deals to low-level FAs. All so close to the vest, all so conservative, all with pretty clear disregard for using this offseason to try to land long-term difference makers.

So yeah, I’m with you, @lavar703. At least use the last couple rounds to swing for the fences. Take Trey Adams. Take Bryce Hall. Take Jauan Jennings. Take Hunter Bryant despite his injury issues, or take the TE from Arkansas who can play but can’t act right. Go for the boom/bust guys and let the bust potential be damned. We don’t need more okay/deserves to be on a roster guys. We need impact players, and the FO doesn’t really seem to be appreciating that reality.

 

[turtle28]

22 minutes ago, naptownskinsfan said:

I agree, we were close on Howard at one time.  The Bears have 11 tight ends currently, the Seahawks have five and other teams have stacked depth charts.  This was a horrific draft class, and I think they decided that early by not having anyone visit from that position.  

Besides overpaying for Hooper, the best way to get a starting TE this off-season is to wait until after the draft and work the cuts or make a trade with someone.   The FA market was just as dreadful as the draft pool

Redskins have 6 TEs too, it doesn't mean that the 2 or 3 that we are going cut are going to be upgrades on another team.

I guess it's possible. I sure hope we can add a definite upgrade like Howard or Njoku.

[e16bball]

That said, I actually like James Smith-Williams, aside from his injury issues. 

What they don’t have is a legit strong-side DE in the 4-3 alignment. I think they’ll try to get Sweat to put on some weight and develop into that role, and I think Kerrigan and probably one of Allen/Greek will get some snaps there. But they don’t have a guy that is just by his nature a strong end, so I can get why they wanted to land a player in that mold.

[turtle28]

1 minute ago, e16bball said:

I think the frustrating thing about the picks in Round 5-7 is that they were basically targeting “quality depth” players — backup OL, special teamers, etc. Which is cool, it’s pretty much what you’re usually looking for in the late rounds, some guys who can make the team and shore up the bottom of the roster. 

But that’s really not what the Redskins need, which I think is what makes it feel so unsatisfying. They don’t really need more young depth, they have it in spades all over the roster. Seriously, at basically every position they have a young guy or two that is either developmental or a hopeful potential starter or contributes on teams or something. It’s an extremely bottom-heavy roster.

What they need is starters. High-end players. They don’t need a bunch of young guys to compete for the last roster spots with the other young guys they took last year and the year before. I mean, you always need quality depth — but it’s not moving the needle. It’s like switching out the no-name bands in a festival lineup when there’s no headliners.

They needed a starting LT, a starting MLB, a starting TE, a starting LG, a starting CB, a starting FS, probably a starting WR, probably a starting SLB. And the offseason is basically over, and what they’ve gotten done is adding an all-world pass-rusher, a slot CB, a gadget RB/WR hybrid, a couple day 3 picks thrown at OT/WR, and a bunch of one-year deals to low-level FAs. All so close to the vest, all so conservative, all with pretty clear disregard for using this offseason to try to land long-term difference makers.

So yeah, I’m with you, @lavar703. At least use the last couple rounds to swing for the fences. Take Trey Adams. Take Bryce Hall. Take Jauan Jennings. Take Hunter Bryant despite his injury issues, or take the TE from Arkansas who can play but can’t act right. Go for the boom/bust guys and let the bust potential be damned. We don’t need more okay/deserves to be on a roster guys. We need impact players, and the FO doesn’t really seem to be appreciating that reality.

 

I'm confused extremely confused. No matter what, you are getting those types of guys late in the draft, there are just certain prospects that we had heard or watched in college that we liked better then the guys we actually took. By no means does that mean that the guys we took weren't worth taking when we took them.

I’ll also add that we can still grab some of the guys we all wanted as UDFAs. I hope we do grab some of them.

The offseason isn't over. There are still LTs they can sign if they don't like the guys they have and the guy they just drafted to start there. Same with TE and they could trade for some TEs too.

[lavar703]

8 minutes ago, LoganF89 said:

Outside of young, AGG, and Charles I just don’t see this as that great of a draft. But I guess it’s to be determined.

im iffy on the boy from memphis. They indicate he will probably be playing running back.

we already have AP, Guice, Love, Barber, Mckissic, and now the rookie. Just didn’t understand the pick 

If he plays RB for this team it’s an absolute failure of a pick. Love and Guice, barring they stay healthy, are 10x the RBs Gibson is. I don’t think people truly understand just how good Guice can be. Yes, he needs to be healthy but Gibson needs to be a receiver for this team or that pick is a failure. If Guice and Love end up being healthy that dude will never see the field. 

[offbyone]

17 minutes ago, lavar703 said:

So far for trading Dunbar and Trent we’ve ended up with a third string center and an undersized LB who’s too slow to play safety in the NFL. With the exception of Young and Fuller, I have a hard time remembering a more underwhelming off-season? 

I agree.  Fleeced on both trades.  Other than fuller no one really added in free agency . Rivera may have made a culture upgrade, but I am not seeing a big personnel upgrade.   I don't think the two need to be mutually exclusive.

We made more cap space with the Trent Williams trade but no one to use it on.  We damn well better sign Scherff and extend some of our own guys.  

Shocked we didn't take a TE considering the depth picks we made.  Lot of pressure on Sprinkle now.  Maybe we should extend him now in case he blows up, he is gonna be getting a lot of balls thrown his way.

If you subtract Chase Young, did we get a starter in this draft?  I mean Gibson might rotate in, but did we get a starter other than Young?  

 

[naptownskinsfan]

6 minutes ago, e16bball said:

I think the frustrating thing about the picks in Round 5-7 is that they were basically targeting “quality depth” players — backup OL, special teamers, etc. Which is cool, it’s pretty much what you’re usually looking for in the late rounds, some guys who can make the team and shore up the bottom of the roster. 

But that’s really not what the Redskins need, which I think is what makes it feel so unsatisfying. They don’t really need more young depth, they have it in spades all over the roster. Seriously, at basically every position they have a young guy or two that is either developmental or a hopeful potential starter or contributes on teams or something. It’s an extremely bottom-heavy roster.

What they need is starters. High-end players. They don’t need a bunch of young guys to compete for the last roster spots with the other young guys they took last year and the year before. I mean, you always need quality depth — but it’s not moving the needle. It’s like switching out the no-name bands in a festival lineup when there’s no headliners.

They needed a starting LT, a starting MLB, a starting TE, a starting LG, a starting CB, a starting FS, probably a starting WR, probably a starting SLB. And the offseason is basically over, and what they’ve gotten done is adding an all-world pass-rusher, a slot CB, a gadget RB/WR hybrid, a couple day 3 picks thrown at OT/WR, and a bunch of one-year deals to low-level FAs. All so close to the vest, all so conservative, all with pretty clear disregard for using this offseason to try to land long-term difference makers.

So yeah, I’m with you, @lavar703. At least use the last couple rounds to swing for the fences. Take Trey Adams. Take Bryce Hall. Take Jauan Jennings. Take Hunter Bryant despite his injury issues, or take the TE from Arkansas who can play but can’t act right. Go for the boom/bust guys and let the bust potential be damned. We don’t need more okay/deserves to be on a roster guys. We need impact players, and the FO doesn’t really seem to be appreciating that reality.

 

To the point on some of the players we are drafting, while Rivera is apparently highlighting an importance on position versatility, some of the draft picks are starters and guys who produced for a couple years in college.  That is going back to the influence of McCloughan when he was here, and that's obviously influenced Kyle Smith to an extent.  The only pick that screams Rivera is the one for Gibson.  

I also agree on using the sevenths to swing for the fences.  

[turtle28]

Just now, e16bball said:

That said, I actually like James Smith-Williams, aside from his injury issues. 

What they don’t have is a legit strong-side DE in the 4-3 alignment. I think they’ll try to get Sweat to put on some weight and develop into that role, and I think Kerrigan and probably one of Allen/Greek will get some snaps there. But they don’t have a guy that is just by his nature a strong end, so I can get why they wanted to land a player in that mold.

I still think the best thing to do is have Jon Allen start there and play there on run downs and totally dominate the RT and create havoc in the opponents back field on run downs. 

They can rotate Sweat and Kerrigan in on passing downs. We’ll have a heck of a run D if we do that I think as long as our LBs improve.

[lavar703]

2 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

I'm confused extremely confused. No matter what, you are getting those types of guys late in the draft, there are just certain prospects that we had heard or watched in college that we liked better then the guys we actually took. By no means does that mean that the guys we took weren't worth taking when we took them.

I’ll also add that we can still grab some of the guys we all wanted as UDFAs. I hope we do grab some of them.

The offseason isn't over. There are still LTs they can sign if they don't like the guys they have and the guy they just drafted to start there. Same with TE and they could trade for some TEs too.

KJ Hill, regardless of where he was picked is undoubtedly more talented than every single player we picked from the 5th round on. They treated this draft like we’re need depth coming off of a 10-6 season. 

[turtle28]

Gibson is a hybrid guy in my mind, but I think he’ll mostly be playing WR. Great pick with a ton of upside. He was known as one of the best athletes in college football. I sure wish he had decided to go to WVU rather them Memphis, they sure could've used him last year!

[naptownskinsfan]

Miami gets Malcolm Perry.  

Lining him and Tu'a up in the same backfield in the Wildcat.  

Absolutely craziness.  

[turtle28]

2 minutes ago, lavar703 said:

KJ Hill, regardless of where he was picked is undoubtedly more talented than every single player we picked from the 5th round on. They treated this draft like we’re need depth coming off of a 10-6 season. 

I'd say Hill is a more polished player but he's not a more talented/athletic guy. I mean your argument is kind of like saying Geno Torretta and Ken Dorsey were going to be great pros bc of what they did at the University of Miami.

My comp for KJ Hill is Ryan Grant. Fine guy to have as your #4 WR but not necessarily the guy you want to be one of your top 3.

Now Gibson & AGG have the potential to be one of our top 3 WRs someday because of their plus attributes over a guy like KJ Hill.

[lavar703]

2 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

I'd say Hill is a more polished player but he's not a more talented/athletic guy. I mean your argument is kind of like saying Geno Torretta and Ken Dorsey were going to be great pros bc of what they did at the University of Miami.

My comp for KJ Hill is Ryan Grant. Fine guy to have as your #4 WR but not necessarily the guy you want to be one of your top 3.

Now Gibson & AGG have the potential to be one of our top 3 WRs someday because of their plus attributes over a guy like KJ Hill.

The same Ryan Grant they said was our best receiver for years? Oh dude lol

[turtle28]

11 minutes ago, offbyone said:

I agree.  Fleeced on both trades.  Other than fuller no one really added in free agency . Rivera may have made a culture upgrade, but I am not seeing a big personnel upgrade.   I don't think the two need to be mutually exclusive.

We made more cap space with the Trent Williams trade but no one to use it on.  We damn well better sign Scherff and extend some of our own guys.  

Shocked we didn't take a TE considering the depth picks we made.  Lot of pressure on Sprinkle now.  Maybe we should extend him now in case he blows up, he is gonna be getting a lot of balls thrown his way.

If you subtract Chase Young, did we get a starter in this draft?  I mean Gibson might rotate in, but did we get a starter other than Young?  

 

I think this year is for evaluation of a young roster. Next year might be the year when they use up that cap space if they think they're close.

[naptownskinsfan]

12 minutes ago, offbyone said:

I agree.  Fleeced on both trades.  Other than fuller no one really added in free agency . Rivera may have made a culture upgrade, but I am not seeing a big personnel upgrade.   I don't think the two need to be mutually exclusive.

We made more cap space with the Trent Williams trade but no one to use it on.  We damn well better sign Scherff and extend some of our own guys.  

Shocked we didn't take a TE considering the depth picks we made.  Lot of pressure on Sprinkle now.  Maybe we should extend him now in case he blows up, he is gonna be getting a lot of balls thrown his way.

If you subtract Chase Young, did we get a starter in this draft?  I mean Gibson might rotate in, but did we get a starter other than Young?  

 

Rivera's teams have built through the draft.  Expecting big FA additions aren't in his MO.  The biggest expenditure was on Matt Kalil who got $55 million and was a bust for them, and the next largest contract was to Matt Paradis two seasons later to correct that mistake.