The QB Thread: Everything Carr, Stidham and beyond...

[NYRaider]

On 11/15/2022 at 10:58 AM, BayRaider said:

This team almost never gets a chance to draft a franchise QB. If Stroud or Young are there, you have to do it. 

I know that some of you are not familiar with this but in the NFL there are these things called trades. We've seen numerous teams trade up in the draft to get a QB over the years. You don't need a top pick to land a franchise QB and when you look at recent NFL history like 90% of QB's selected in the top 3 have been busts. 

[NYRaider]

17 hours ago, bucksavage1 said:

Add the Rams in the QB market. Rumors are Stafford is mulling retirement. Apparently his concussion is more serious than reported

The Rams gave up two first round picks to move on from Goff, they're not trading for Carr. 

[NYRaider]

13 hours ago, big_palooka said:

I don't think that is what happened. I think they thought the roster was better than it actually was and it backfired. 

13 hours ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

They’re professionals and they don’t know how to evaluate talent? 

Jacobs and Adams are the only two star offensive players that have been healthy for us all season. Adams is on pace to break every Raiders single season receiving record in his first year here and Jacobs is on pace for like 1,800 APY. I don't think it's a stretch to say that the offense would be significantly better if we had Waller/Renfrow on the field. And I don't think that Ziegler/JMD plan was to feature guys like Moreau and Hollins. 

 

On 11/15/2022 at 7:49 PM, NCOUGHMAN said:

Not gonna lie I feel bad for carr. I think they new staff is doing him dirty. Should’ve just traded him before the season. Imo they never liked carr but given jmd last hc debacle with the qb in den. He almost had to sign carr. Imo carr is more of a raider than any of the new coaches. I’m glad his stats are still looking good. 

On 11/15/2022 at 11:04 AM, big_palooka said:

We have a franchise. Year 10 is when he will really break out, just be patient. 

How in the hell is the new regime doing Carr dirty? We resigned Waller/Renfrow and then traded away two premium to land the best WR in the league. If they didn't like Carr they wouldn't have went all in to keep our core guys around or to go get his best friend / an alpha #1 WR. 

It's not even about breaking out, we already know who Carr is at this point. But if the regime had faith in him as the starter coming into this season I'm not sure how their thought process would be much different. Carr isn't ever going to be a guy that elevates other guys, he's basically equal to the sum of the parts around him. Which is why they made it a priority to surround him with weapons, IIRC we are the only team in NFL history with 3 guys that have had 100+ catches on the same roster. JMD knows he'll be on the hot seat next year, not sure any QB we can acquire gives him a better chance to win and save his job.

 

[Geezy]

I think McDs best chance at year 3 is with DC. If he brings in a rookie and he struggles like DC has how patient will Mark and the fan base be? Could he endure another 10+ loss season? DC has ran every offense in the damn league and is struggling to adapt, how is a rookie going to do? Will McD bank his HC career on a Mac Jones type situation? If he bombs again next year, theres no way he gets another chance at HC. 

[Geezy]

I think McD will realize we never really had the offense together to give this a true chance, add some pieces to the OL and defense and run it back. 
 

Anderson/Carter + vet FA DL.

vet FA OL + top 40 OL in draft

use rest of FA money and draft picks on competition in the back 7 on defense and some speed at WR. 
 

might have to trade Waller, but would add a pick or two and some money to retain JJ. 

[NCOUGHMAN]

6 hours ago, NYRaider said:

Jacobs and Adams are the only two star offensive players that have been healthy for us all season. Adams is on pace to break every Raiders single season receiving record in his first year here and Jacobs is on pace for like 1,800 APY. I don't think it's a stretch to say that the offense would be significantly better if we had Waller/Renfrow on the field. And I don't think that Ziegler/JMD plan was to feature guys like Moreau and Hollins. 

 

How in the hell is the new regime doing Carr dirty? We resigned Waller/Renfrow and then traded away two premium to land the best WR in the league. If they didn't like Carr they wouldn't have went all in to keep our core guys around or to go get his best friend / an alpha #1 WR. 

It's not even about breaking out, we already know who Carr is at this point. But if the regime had faith in him as the starter coming into this season I'm not sure how their thought process would be much different. Carr isn't ever going to be a guy that elevates other guys, he's basically equal to the sum of the parts around him. Which is why they made it a priority to surround him with weapons, IIRC we are the only team in NFL history with 3 guys that have had 100+ catches on the same roster. JMD knows he'll be on the hot seat next year, not sure any QB we can acquire gives him a better chance to win and save his job.

 

They did carr dirty with this oline. We all know carr needs a oline. Carr needs everything to succeed. If you not gonna provide him what he needs. Let him go so we can move on as a team. 

[bucksavage1]

2 hours ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

They did carr dirty with this oline. We all know carr needs a oline. Carr needs everything to succeed. If you not gonna provide him what he needs. Let him go so we can move on as a team. 

Do you think the Admin would of added to the o-line without the Adams trade?

[NYRaider]

3 hours ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

They did carr dirty with this oline. We all know carr needs a oline. Carr needs everything to succeed. If you not gonna provide him what he needs. Let him go so we can move on as a team. 

They brought back our entire offensive line from last season and invested our first draft pick into a starting interior OL. He's currently on pace to be sacked less this year than he was last season. There was no way that they really could've predicted losing Brandon Parker, Denzelle Good, and Alex Leatherwood right before the season started. Just like they couldn't have predicted that Renfrow/Waller would both miss basically the entire season after we just paid both to keep Carr happy. 

Obviously the season hasn't gone as planned but you can't say that it was because of a lack of effort to help Carr. A lot of people thought we had the best group of skill position players in the league and that the OL would be on par with last year at bare minimum before the season started. 

[NYRaider]

1 hour ago, bucksavage1 said:

Do you think the Admin would of added to the o-line without the Adams trade?

It's unknown but it's also difficult to rebuild a roster with as many flaws as we have/had in a single offseason. They brought back our entire unit from a year ago and they all just dropped like flies right before the season started.

[NYRaider]

The excuse for Carr was always that he never had a top tier WR to lean on. We get him one and now it's because our offensive line isn't good. We'll rebuild the offensive line and everyone will blame the coaching staff. 

ABC = Anyone But Carr ('s fault)

[bucksavage1]

1 hour ago, NYRaider said:

The excuse for Carr was always that he never had a top tier WR to lean on. We get him one and now it's because our offensive line isn't good. We'll rebuild the offensive line and everyone will blame the coaching staff. 

ABC = Anyone But Carr ('s fault)

+Don’t forget the defense

+ Don’t forget continuity in The same offense

The circle of Carr excuses

[NYRaider]

1 minute ago, bucksavage1 said:

+Don’t forget the defense

+ Don’t forget continuity in The same offense

The circle of Carr excuses

If we can somehow figure out how to retain our core offensive weapons, rebuild the offensive line, and build a top tier defense from scratch we may have enough for Carr to win with.

[NickButera]

2 hours ago, NYRaider said:

They brought back our entire offensive line from last season and invested our first draft pick into a starting interior OL. He's currently on pace to be sacked less this year than he was last season. There was no way that they really could've predicted losing Brandon Parker, Denzelle Good, and Alex Leatherwood right before the season started. Just like they couldn't have predicted that Renfrow/Waller would both miss basically the entire season after we just paid both to keep Carr happy. 

Obviously the season hasn't gone as planned but you can't say that it was because of a lack of effort to help Carr. A lot of people thought we had the best group of skill position players in the league and that the OL would be on par with last year at bare minimum before the season started. 

Hang on. They did Carr dirty with the offensive line, absolutely.

1)You say they brought back the whole o-line from last year like that wasn't going Carr dirty.......They were trash last year and everyone knew it was a huge hole. We didn't return the whole oline in reality though, (see below), and all we did to a bad group was add a 3rd rounder. The only thing that saved us last year from ultimate disaster was our backups were just as bleh as our starters...which weren't great. The organizations lack of action is what did Carr dirty. 

2)We lost that depth at the start of the year, Parker, Good, Incgnito, Martin, Leatherwood. 3 of which we knew were going before the season started!  And did nothing to help or replace it. Again, lack of action. No wonder we're beginning to show o-line issues. 

[NYRaider]

Just now, NickButera said:

Hang on. They did Carr dirty with the offensive line, absolutely.

1)You say they brought back the whole o-line from last year like that wasn't going Carr dirty.......They were trash last year and everyone knew it was a huge hole. We didn't return the whole oline in reality though, (see below), and all we did to a bad group was add a 3rd rounder. The only thing that saved us last year from ultimate disaster was our backups were just as bleh as our starters...which weren't great. The organizations lack of action is what did Carr dirty. 

2)We lost that depth at the start of the year, Parker, Good, Incgnito, Martin, Leatherwood. 3 of which we knew were going before the season started!  And did nothing to help or replace it. Again, lack of action. No wonder we're beginning to show o-line issues. 

McDaniels and Ziegler aren't miracle workers though. We had to resign all of the weapons that Carr needed to be successful plus trade for Adams yet were supposed to have the resources to rebuild the OL and defense too? 

What offensive linemen would you have picked up this offseason to sure up our group up front? The Patriots have been known for having success with rag tag groups up front. I'm assuming that they thought they could coach up the guys that were already here. Losing Parker/Good to injury and Leatherwood being a complete dud is a lot to handle right before the season. 

And yes we lost depth at the start of the year but how easy is it to obtain starting level OL during the season? What starting OL have been traded and played well for their new team this year? 

[NickButera]

4 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

McDaniels and Ziegler aren't miracle workers though. We had to resign all of the weapons that Carr needed to be successful plus trade for Adams yet were supposed to have the resources to rebuild the OL and defense too? 

What offensive linemen would you have picked up this offseason to sure up our group up front? The Patriots have been known for having success with rag tag groups up front. I'm assuming that they thought they could coach up the guys that were already here. Losing Parker/Good to injury and Leatherwood being a complete dud is a lot to handle right before the season. 

And yes we lost depth at the start of the year but how easy is it to obtain starting level OL during the season? What starting OL have been traded and played well for their new team this year? 

You mistake me for someone who's making excuses for reasons why they could have done better. 

I'm a "Everyone is at fault" person. 

Carr is at fault because he is who he is

McDaniels is at fault because he's clearly not coaching well enough and the players aren't ready

DZ is at fault because he didn't even attempt to address our biggest area of need

Graham is at fault for ....everything. 

Davis is at fault too. 

I'm not going to create a straw man for you to strike down. The fact remains we are the second worst team in football last year. Doesn't even matter that we are a playoff team last year, we could have gone with your theory that it was a fluke and we were mediocre. Going to the worst team in football is a failure at every level no matter where we were last year. If we were the worst team last year, remaining at the bottom would continue being a failure at every level.