swede700 Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 If what we are seeing is what Keenum is and will be, I'm okay with it, but not for $20M+ as some are suggesting. Make him a fair offer in the $17M range (basically a little less than what they are paying Bradford) and if he gets more elsewhere, so be it...then you can re-sign Teddy and give him a full offseason of work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cearbhall Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 4 minutes ago, disaacs said: If what we are seeing is what Keenum is and will be, I'm okay with it, but not for $20M+ as some are suggesting. Make him a fair offer in the $17M range (basically a little less than what they are paying Bradford) and if he gets more elsewhere, so be it...then you can re-sign Teddy and give him a full offseason of work. The only way that offer is realistic IMO if if it is made after free agency has opened. His agent would be negligent to let him sign for less than the franchise tag before the deadline to apply the tag. Once the tag isn't applied, it is borderline negligence to not test free agency. Perhaps he would sign in that period before free agency if the agent has informally tested the options by then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worm Guts Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 8 minutes ago, Cearbhall said: The only way that offer is realistic IMO if if it is made after free agency has opened. His agent would be negligent to let him sign for less than the franchise tag before the deadline to apply the tag. Once the tag isn't applied, it is borderline negligence to not test free agency. Perhaps he would sign in that period before free agency if the agent has informally tested the options by then. I don't know what Keenum will eventually get, but as someone who has failed before, he might appreciate a good situation and not blindly take the most money. We will see though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cearbhall Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 1 minute ago, Worm Guts said: I don't know what Keenum will eventually get, but as someone who has failed before, he might appreciate a good situation and not blindly take the most money. We will see though. If he is smart he looks at what gives him the best long-term chance for success. Few players act that smart though and take the biggest cash grab they can when they get a chance. It is hard to blame them. Most players only get one or two chances for the large cash grab. QBs are unique in that they can play long enough to have more pulls from the piggy bank but Keenum is already starting late so won't get many chances. Case might like a one year deal that gives him more money than he has earned in his career combined with the chance to really cash in if he does it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede700 Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 22 minutes ago, Cearbhall said: The only way that offer is realistic IMO if if it is made after free agency has opened. His agent would be negligent to let him sign for less than the franchise tag before the deadline to apply the tag. Once the tag isn't applied, it is borderline negligence to not test free agency. Perhaps he would sign in that period before free agency if the agent has informally tested the options by then. I do expect that they'll present him some kind of offer. I don't think it's necessarily negligent for the agent to let him sign for less than the franchise tag, because a long-term deal offers more security than the tag. In fact, it's far more frequent that a QB takes less money than the franchise tag for the additional long-term security. A Kirk Cousins situation is the exception more than the rule. That's a special case, because the front office has basically told him on multiple occasions that he's not the long-term solution, so there's some discord there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cearbhall Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 38 minutes ago, disaacs said: I do expect that they'll present him some kind of offer. I don't think it's necessarily negligent for the agent to let him sign for less than the franchise tag, because a long-term deal offers more security than the tag. In fact, it's far more frequent that a QB takes less money than the franchise tag for the additional long-term security. A Kirk Cousins situation is the exception more than the rule. That's a special case, because the front office has basically told him on multiple occasions that he's not the long-term solution, so there's some discord there. It would be great if they got him to sign something that gives him security earlier. However, I still think he would be foolish to sign it before the tag deadline. Once he gets the tag, the tag values will become the starting point for negotiations. You say that it is far more frequent that a QB takes less money than the franchise tag for the additional long-term security. I don't know about that. What would be the examples of that. All the QBs that I see signing long term deals nowadays seem to be doing better than the tag. QBs earning less than the tag value are on short deals and rookie deals. I haven't researched the topic completely. Perhaps you are correct. Even Ryan Tannehill's contract extension gave him more than the franchise value at the time. And he is just Ryan Tannehill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CriminalMind Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 8 hours ago, swiss_vike said: I think the #Vikings will draft a QB high this year, no matter what. The team is pretty deep, fairly young with an existing realistic time window of 4-5 years. Wouldn't surprise me if they will franchise Case, signe Teddy to 2 years around 10 per and draft mayfield, allen or rudolph. I could see the franchise tag for Keenum, as I said about 2 months ago. But I can't see Teddy returning under that scenario as frankly, I don't think we'd offer him a competitive enough contract (despite reports), and it would be amicable parting to split on good terms. Followed up by the drafting of a high potential QB (to take over in 1-2 years). We don't have any overly significant holes (but yes, there are areas we could improve on), so Rick might as well take another swing at the grand daddy QB position, knowing that if he hits on it with a legit future top 5 QB, we're a dynasty team in the making. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede700 Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 17 minutes ago, Cearbhall said: Even Ryan Tannehill's contract extension gave him more than the franchise value at the time. And he is just Ryan Tannehill. It actually turned out to be less than the franchise tag value...he signed the extension in 2015, but it didn't take effect until 2016, and was about half a million less than the tag value. Plus, you only need to look at Bradford's deal with Philly. He probably could have gone elsewhere, but he signed a 2-yr deal for $36M, which is less than the franchise tag. No matter where he goes, he's likely not going to be the guaranteed starter for very long, if at all, so it would be even more irresponsible for his agent to hold out for more than the franchise tag amount, which he likely isn't going to find anywhere. But if he does, I'd wish him well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worm Guts Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 2 minutes ago, CriminalMind said: I could see the franchise tag for Keenum, as I said about 2 months ago. But I can't see Teddy returning under that scenario as frankly, I don't think we'd offer him a competitive enough contract (despite reports), and it would be amicable parting to split on good terms. Followed up by the drafting of a high potential QB (to take over in 1-2 years). We don't have any overly significant holes (but yes, there are areas we could improve on), so Rick might as well take another swing at the grand daddy QB position, knowing that if he hits on it with a legit future top 5 QB, we're a dynasty team in the making. I can't help but wonder how Case would feel to resign with us, only for us to immediately draft his replacement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingsrule Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 Keenum will likely have to deal with that anywhere he signs with. Until Keenum does it for a couple of seasons, he's essentially looking for a pay raise based on one good season. That's risky for a near 30 year old QB on a stacked team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gopherwrestler Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 One thing with Teddy playing, there is a few options happening. Teddy plays great, Vikings gain more faith in him, let Case sign big elsewhere, collect comp pick. Teddy plays great, We still sign Case, fan base goes furious, collect comp pick. Teddy plays poorly, We may be able to sign both Case and Teddy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gopherwrestler Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 3 minutes ago, Worm Guts said: I can't help but wonder how Case would feel to resign with us, only for us to immediately draft his replacement. wouldn't be mad. any team will do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worm Guts Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 Just now, vikingsrule said: Keenum will likely have to deal with that anywhere he signs with. Until Keenum does it for a couple of seasons, he's essentially looking for a pay raise based on one good season. That's risky for a near 30 year old QB on a stacked team. I would say the one benefit for signing Teddy is the backup, is that would essentially be a short term deal. If Case establishes himself in 2018, Teddy could still probably move on, as opposed to a 1st round pick who is lurking over his shoulder for next 3 years even if he plays well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cearbhall Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 14 minutes ago, disaacs said: It actually turned out to be less than the franchise tag value...he signed the extension in 2015, but it didn't take effect until 2016, and was about half a million less than the tag value. Plus, you only need to look at Bradford's deal with Philly. He probably could have gone elsewhere, but he signed a 2-yr deal for $36M, which is less than the franchise tag. No matter where he goes, he's likely not going to be the guaranteed starter for very long, if at all, so it would be even more irresponsible for his agent to hold out for more than the franchise tag amount, which he likely isn't going to find anywhere. But if he does, I'd wish him well. I wouldn't include the two year deal that Bradford signed as a long term deal or one that offered him long-term security. Ryan Tannehill signed a contract in 2015 with an average value if over $19M and guaranteed value over $21M. The QB franchise tag in 2015 was $18.544M for the exclusive version and something less for the non exclusive version. When Tannehill signed, he signed for more than the franchise tag value. Now that I have looked into it a bit more I am comfortable saying that most QBs that sign long-term deals to be starters do indeed sign for more than the franchise tag value. It is not far more frequent that a QB takes less money than the franchise tag for the additional long-term security. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worm Guts Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 Just now, gopherwrestler said: wouldn't be mad. any team will do it. I don't think that's necessarily true. It's one thing to draft a 2nd or 3rd rounder or to even bring a veteran with starting experience, but a 1st rounder is expected to start at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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