MOSteelers56 Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 What’s everyone think about this guy? It seems like he definitely has some fans but also a decent amount of people that are critical of him. What’s your take on him? Do you want him back after his contract is up? Would you take him over Sutton if you had to choose only one when their contracts are up? I’ll post my opinion a little later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
43M Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 Good blitzer. Average at best tackler. Below average in coverage. I liked him more when he still had upside. At this point, he is what he is....a pretty average slot corner that is okay as a stop gap, but given our front offices inability to scout and draft DBs, has stuck around longer than he should have. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOSteelers56 Posted May 30, 2020 Author Share Posted May 30, 2020 52 minutes ago, FourThreeMafia said: Good blitzer. Average at best tackler. Below average in coverage. I liked him more when he still had upside. At this point, he is what he is....a pretty average slot corner that is okay as a stop gap, but given our front offices inability to scout and draft DBs, has stuck around longer than he should have. I’m excited to see what Trajan Bandy can do. He looks a lot like Hilton physically. Maybe he can take his spot after we let him go, which I hope they do after this year. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcash4 Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 2 hours ago, FourThreeMafia said: A Good blitzer. Average at best tackler. Below average in coverage. I liked him more when he still had upside. At this point, he is what he is....a pretty average slot corner that is okay as a stop gap, but given our front offices inability to scout and draft DBs, has stuck around longer than he should have. Agree with the underline, whole heartedly disagree with the bold. When you line up with and sometimes beat one of the best box safeties in the league I’m most metrics - you are not below average against the run. Hilton has a better or similar miss tackle rate to Bobby Wagner, TJ Watt, Jamal Adams, and Chris Harris - the best ILB, Best player on our team, best Box safety, and best slot CB . But that leads to what I think of Hilton. I stopped thinking of him as a Corner. 43 is absolutely right, he is a below average cover guy, but the rest of his game suits today’s NFL perfectly. I have long believed that the NFL would transition, or should transition, into a three safety league. Hilton is that - our third safety. Defends the run, fits as a pass rusher, and can cover, though it’s not his strong suit. I get wanting a better cover guy when you think of a lot CB, but if the next guy (maybe Sutton?) is a vastly superior cover guy but not nearly as good in the other phases of the game we will look back and miss Hilton’s versatility in versatile defensive world. If we could resign him for $5M a year, you thank the NFL gods that you got a steal when someone is going to pay Jamal Adams NFL safety breaking money and you got the same player for 1/4 the cost. But seriously, not thinking of him as the CB letters in the program completely changed my opinion of him. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
43M Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 1 hour ago, Dcash4 said: Agree with the underline, whole heartedly disagree with the bold. When you line up with and sometimes beat one of the best box safeties in the league I’m most metrics - you are not below average against the run. Hilton has a better or similar miss tackle rate to Bobby Wagner, TJ Watt, Jamal Adams, and Chris Harris - the best ILB, Best player on our team, best Box safety, and best slot CB . But that leads to what I think of Hilton. I stopped thinking of him as a Corner. 43 is absolutely right, he is a below average cover guy, but the rest of his game suits today’s NFL perfectly. I have long believed that the NFL would transition, or should transition, into a three safety league. Hilton is that - our third safety. Defends the run, fits as a pass rusher, and can cover, though it’s not his strong suit. I get wanting a better cover guy when you think of a lot CB, but if the next guy (maybe Sutton?) is a vastly superior cover guy but not nearly as good in the other phases of the game we will look back and miss Hilton’s versatility in versatile defensive world. If we could resign him for $5M a year, you thank the NFL gods that you got a steal when someone is going to pay Jamal Adams NFL safety breaking money and you got the same player for 1/4 the cost. But seriously, not thinking of him as the CB letters in the program completely changed my opinion of him. Good post, and fair enough. I dont analyze games and players the way I used to, so perhaps Ive unfairly judged him there. He isnt a bad tackler, but he seems to miss a good bit of open field tackles....but again, maybe my critique is too harsh. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOSteelers56 Posted May 30, 2020 Author Share Posted May 30, 2020 He is a very poor man cover guy. I was watching a video about Edmunds and Hilton was getting torched up the seams in man constantly. I like his toughness and zone coverage. If he’s within 7 yards of the LOS, he’ll get the job done for the most part. I think he’s going to have a big year this year, but I don’t think we’ll keep him. I think he’s really good at what he does, but he’s kind of a novelty. I think Sutton is more important. That’s why I’m pulling for Bandy to make the roster. He can slide into Hilton’s spot. Plus, maybe someone will sign him to a fat contract and we’ll get a comp pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcash4 Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 2 hours ago, FourThreeMafia said: Good post, and fair enough. I dont analyze games and players the way I used to, so perhaps Ive unfairly judged him there. He isnt a bad tackler, but he seems to miss a good bit of open field tackles....but again, maybe my critique is too harsh. In all honesty going into last year I felt the same way you did. But changing the way I viewed him really flipped my opinion and after doing some playing around on pro football reference lining him up against other guys it opened my eyes to just how good he has actually been. I keep coming back to this name, but he really started my deep dive, but Jamal Adams was a first team all-pro and he and Hilton’s production levels are almost identical through three years in the league...and then you see that Hilton plays about half the snaps. I absolutely get his glaring weakness and we will absolutely see him get smoked a time or two in season. But I think it will be hard to replace his overall game - especially the way he is used to defend the run out of nickel and also be an asset in butlers rush game. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jebrick Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 Hilton needs to play off man. I have not figured out if he can play zone well or not. Sometimes he does well and sometimes he gets caught looking 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Slim Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 he provides a really useful wrinkle to the defense that imo you can't really quantify; and while for that reason i'd be wary of overpaying him he's really not someone i want to let go 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOSteelers56 Posted June 1, 2020 Author Share Posted June 1, 2020 15 hours ago, Shady Slim said: he provides a really useful wrinkle to the defense that imo you can't really quantify; and while for that reason i'd be wary of overpaying him he's really not someone i want to let go That wrinkle is, apparently, something the FO really values. They looked for it with Senquez Golson(again, I can’t remember if that was exactly his name and doing two things at once on my phone is hard, y’all know who I’m talking about lol). I think they’ve maybe realized it’s easier to find a Troy Polamalu style of player at NCB instead of safety. I’m just thinking and typing here, but that kind of makes sense. NCB is a position that isn’t going to be flying across the field and hitting someone, so it’s probably easier to keep those guys safe. Remember injuries derailed Troy’s and Bob Sanders’ careers. Bigger, stronger safeties seem to be who they go for, and fiesty, rover, NCB types. I know I’ve mentioned him a few times but I’m hopeful for Trajan Bandy to be the “next man up.” That way we can keep the better cover guy, Sutton, and keep the rover NCB skill set without paying too much for it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOSteelers56 Posted June 1, 2020 Author Share Posted June 1, 2020 On 5/30/2020 at 8:02 PM, jebrick said: Hilton needs to play off man. I have not figured out if he can play zone well or not. Sometimes he does well and sometimes he gets caught looking Seems like he’s good at the little short, matchup zone things we do around the LOS, but I honestly don’t know much about scheme. I may be wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jebrick Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 For @kurgan's study, the key is to see if he can cover in the short area for 4 seconds. I know he is not really good on a Jam which is why he must be off-man. He can jam but he does not have the athletic talent to stay with more than average WR. The pass rush has helped him a lot. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcash4 Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, jebrick said: 4 seconds 😳 I may be ignorant to this, but is this a real tracked metric people look for in DBs? Average time To throw for QBs is usually well under 3 seconds. I can’t imagine if that’s the case we expect players to cover their man for 4. Edited June 1, 2020 by Dcash4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFF Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 Sutton>Hilton Sutton can play on the outside as well. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jebrick Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 (edited) Good article on BtSC on the disguised coverage that was being used last year by the Steeler defense https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2020/6/2/21274693/masters-of-disguise-how-the-steelers-keep-offenses-guessing-by-masking-their-coverages-safety-corner Quote The key to making any of this work is proper communication in the secondary. The Steelers were plagued by communication issues prior to Minkah Fitzpatrick’s arrival. Fitzpatrick’s value is seen in what he does physically, but also, as evidenced here, by what he brings to the defense from a mental standpoint. How the defense communicates in order to disguise blitzes, coverages, and execute schemes in general is a topic for a forthcoming article. For now, enjoy the sleight of hand featured here and how it has helped turn the Steelers’ defense into one of the elite units in the league. Edited June 2, 2020 by jebrick 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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