Trade Duane Brown?

[OzzyTexan]

At this stage he hasn't shown up but has said he will play somewhere in 2017.. I have always been a big fan of Duane and he is a franchise LT capable of playing at a high level still at age 32. Its clear Houston is not going to just cut him loose as he still has plenty of value.

I think there are a few teams that could use his services, so with that being said... What is his value? 2nd or 3rd rounder? What are some teams that might be interested? Has he played his last game as a texan? 

 

[ET80]

1 hour ago, OzzyTexan said:

At this stage he hasn't shown up but has said he will play somewhere in 2017.. I have always been a big fan of Duane and he is a franchise LT capable of playing at a high level still at age 32. Its clear Houston is not going to just cut him loose as he still has plenty of value.

I think there are a few teams that could use his services, so with that being said... What is his value? 2nd or 3rd rounder? What are some teams that might be interested? Has he played his last game as a texan? 

 

Given the state of the OL blocking for Russell Wilson, Seattle is a good choice. The pick will be in the lower 20s, and you'll be playing Brown later on this season in Seattle, but it's a quick way to rid ourselves of this headache.

[TitanLegend]

Should probably just pay the guy before Watson ends up dead before the season is over. Dude is making 9 mil(and from what I understand none of it's guaranteed, but might be wrong?) when guys like Okung are getting 13.5 mil per and Kalil is getting 11 per, when he's 10x the player they are.

[ET80]

19 minutes ago, TitanLegend said:

Should probably just pay the guy before Watson ends up dead before the season is over. Dude is making 9 mil(and from what I understand none of it's guaranteed, but might be wrong?) when guys like Okung are getting 13.5 mil per and Kalil is getting 11 per, when he's 10x the player they are.

Yeah, not buying it. Guy signed a front loaded deal with the expectation that the bonus money is paid out in years 1-3, and the last two years were thin on that front. I've never been a "if you sign a contract, you live up to it," kind of guy, but if you go into a contract with the intention of collecting big money up front, then complain the back end of the deal is to thin, then that's on you for signing the deal with that structure in place. 

I also worry about the health of Watson, but his pocket presence and overall spatial awareness in the face of a pass rush makes me feel better. He's protecting himself when contact is incoming, he's not staring down the rush - he's handling it very well. In addition, the issue isn't just LT, the interior OL is completely devoid of any substance, and Brown on the edge doesn't make Susan Sua-Filo or Jeff Allen any better. OK, the Jags don't get 10 sacks with Brown in the lineup, they get 8. Still a bad OL, with or without Brown.

[TitanLegend]

1 minute ago, EliteTexan80 said:

Yeah, not buying it. Guy signed a front loaded deal with the expectation that the bonus money is paid out in years 1-3, and the last two years were thin on that front. I've never been a "if you sign a contract, you live up to it," kind of guy, but if you go into a contract with the intention of collecting big money up front, then complain the back end of the deal is to thin, then that's on you for signing the deal with that structure in place. 

I also worry about the health of Watson, but his pocket presence and overall spatial awareness in the face of a pass rush makes me feel better. He's protecting himself when contact is incoming, he's not staring down the rush - he's handling it very well. In addition, the issue isn't just LT, the interior OL is completely devoid of any substance, and Brown on the edge doesn't make Susan Sua-Filo or Jeff Allen any better. OK, the Jags don't get 10 sacks with Brown in the lineup, they get 8. Still a bad OL, with or without Brown.

While it doesn't make your terrible OL great, adding Brown doesn't just help LT, it helps the entire OL. Brown doesn't need help at LT, so don't have to worry about having backs or tight ends chip for him. Can focus your help elsewhere.

While his contract situation might be his own fault, sometimes you have to swallow your own pride as an organization to better the team. When you have a QB you have some hope for, I don't know why you wouldn't do everything in your power to make things around him as ideal as possible. Unless what Brown is asking for is some obscene amount of money(from the limited reading I've done he's just looking for some guaranteed cash, but you'd know far more than I about that), I can't imagine why you wouldn't give it to him.

[OzzyTexan]

I've read online that there is no negotiation between the two sides. (Obviously we have no way to know whether that is true or not) I don't think it is as simple as 'pay the guy'.. yes he has been the best player on our abysmal offense these last few years and compared to some offseason contracts is probably deserving of more money. Some people have mentioned the problem being he has 2 years left and that Houston doesn't negotiate extensions until there is only 1 year left on their guys contracts. Hence why there has been no communication. It seems to be how they want to handle contracts and if one player throws a hissy fit and they cave to his demands.. there will be plenty of other guys who might also want better deals or more guarantees.. Clowney for one. I can understand why both sides are doing what they are doing but not sure what the best solution for everyone is... the best thing might be a trade. I think Seattle is a possibility but would they give up a 1st or 2nd rounder for a 32 year old wanting to be paid like a top tackle? Would anyone?

[ET80]

24 minutes ago, TitanLegend said:

While it doesn't make your terrible OL great, adding Brown doesn't just help LT, it helps the entire OL. Brown doesn't need help at LT, so don't have to worry about having backs or tight ends chip for him. Can focus your help elsewhere.

Perhaps two years ago, sure. Ever since his torn quad, he's lacked a step (and always struggled against speed guys - Dwight Freeney was good for 2-3 sacks a game against Brown). There was a decline in Brown LAST season coming off of that injury, so investing further dollars in him isn't the most prudent decision.

24 minutes ago, TitanLegend said:

While his contract situation might be his own fault, sometimes you have to swallow your own pride as an organization to better the team. When you have a QB you have some hope for, I don't know why you wouldn't do everything in your power to make things around him as ideal as possible. Unless what Brown is asking for is some obscene amount of money(from the limited reading I've done he's just looking for some guaranteed cash, but you'd know far more than I about that), I can't imagine why you wouldn't give it to him.

There are some deals coming up that are going to take a bite out of this team - Jadevion Clowney and Bernardrick McKinney are going to command some top dollars, and I'd much rather invest the money on two up and comers vs a depreciating asset in Brown. Losing one asset on that defense in AJ Bouye was a disaster, and that was with his replacement on the roster. Losing Clowney? McKinney? Would destroy what has been a dependable defense. 

If I'm the organization, the most I'm conceding to Brown is waving any fines (which is up to $3mm at this point). Ultimately, renegotiating sets a bad precedent - JJ Watt got his deal with two years left, but was coming off of his 2nd DPOY campaign with the team, so not exactly apples to apples. DeAndre Hopkins held out with two years left on his deal, but it was for a day. He showed up, and eventually got his payday. Not like Hopkins didn't have the same leverage last season - the depth behind him was (and is) inexperienced. But he stayed true to his contract (a rookie contract at that, not the big 2nd contract that vet players get) played out that 2nd to last year, and got his due later.

What makes Brown different?

[Pastor Dillon]

No one is giving up a high pick for Duane Brown. We might could get a 6th rounder for him but only if he agrees to report to whichever team we trade him to. 

Im sure it's happened but I don't ever remember a starting player like this holding out this far into the season. I know it's not happened to us. 

Its time to just move on from him. He's weeks away from being in game shape and he obviously doesn't really want to play football. He's losing hundreds of thousands of dollars a week in a hold out that he has to know isn't going to work at this point. He just doesn't want it anymore for I'd say the heck with trading him, I'd just cut him 

[ET80]

49 minutes ago, Pastor Dillon said:

No one is giving up a high pick for Duane Brown. We might could get a 6th rounder for him but only if he agrees to report to whichever team we trade him to. 

This far in the season, you might be able to get something out of him. It's not as if starting calibur LTs are on the trade market that much - there was talk of two firsts for Joe Thomas a season ago. Now Duane isn't going to command anywhere near Joe T compensation, but this isn't like trading Cam Erving for a 5th round pick like Cleveland did this offseason. 

A first is outlandish, but a 6th is equally outlandish.

[Pastor Dillon]

5 hours ago, EliteTexan80 said:

This far in the season, you might be able to get something out of him. It's not as if starting calibur LTs are on the trade market that much - there was talk of two firsts for Joe Thomas a season ago. Now Duane isn't going to command anywhere near Joe T compensation, but this isn't like trading Cam Erving for a 5th round pick like Cleveland did this offseason. 

A first is outlandish, but a 6th is equally outlandish.

A 6th might not be his real value but that's all we would get 

[ET80]

Just now, Pastor Dillon said:

A 6th might not be his real value but that's all we would get 

I disagree. You had significantly lesser OL - not even starters, backups - traded for around the same amount (Cam Erving to the Chiefs for a 5th, LS Jon Donebros traded from the Eagles to the Saints for a 7th).

If a first round bust labeled "the worst OL in football" and a 37 year old LS can go for day 3 picks, then a starting LT with Pro Bowl/All Pro credentials will go for more. The fact that we're already seeing guys go down with injuries only increases his value via trade. 

I get where you're going with the outstanding contract issues, but none of the 31 teams are calling unless they're willing to work that out before offering trade compensation.

[Pastor Dillon]

15 minutes ago, EliteTexan80 said:

I disagree. You had significantly lesser OL - not even starters, backups - traded for around the same amount (Cam Erving to the Chiefs for a 5th, LS Jon Donebros traded from the Eagles to the Saints for a 7th).

If a first round bust labeled "the worst OL in football" and a 37 year old LS can go for day 3 picks, then a starting LT with Pro Bowl/All Pro credentials will go for more. The fact that we're already seeing guys go down with injuries only increases his value via trade. 

I get where you're going with the outstanding contract issues, but none of the 31 teams are calling unless they're willing to work that out before offering trade compensation.

They aren't calling because he's not worth a day 2 pick. 

[mse326]

No one will offer enough for it to be worth it. Especailly considering how bad the rest of our line is. 

He'll show up eventually.

[ET80]

Talk is that the Saints are hearing offers for S Kenny Vaccaro. He's an incredibly talented S, but possibly miscast in that Saints D. LT Zach Streif and RT Terron Armstead are both injured, so there's a need for T.

Your thoughts on a swap such as this?

[Apollo Stallion]

Contract-wise this is pretty simple - he'll be here week 9.  NFL contract years are "accrued years", not "calendar years."  He signed a 6 year contract, not a 2013-2018 contract.  The "Joey Galloway Rule" allows him to hold out for up to 8 weeks and not sacrifice an accrued year (holding out for 1 game used to sacrifice an accrued season).  If he doesn't show up for Week 9, he's essentially treated as "retired" and comes off the books completely.  If he ever wants to play football again he still owes the Texans two years. Additionally, the Texans would likely pursue a claim to have Brown return a prorated portion of his signing bonus since he only played 4 of 6 seasons aka "the Barry Sanders Rule."  

He has already kicked in a de-escalator clause costing him $250k.  Every game he misses he is sacrificing 1/16th of his $9.4 million salary.  Remember, this is NOT the final year of his contract - he'll have to play this same game again NEXT year to become a free agent in 2019.   There is ZERO incentive to trade him, and I think you'd be shocked how little interest there would be .  The only teams with enough cap space to absorb $9.4 million and still have a few million in wiggle room for other in-season roster adjustments are SF, Cleve, Jacks, Tenn, Indy, NYJets, TB, Cinn, Oak, and Chi. We aren't trading him in the division, rebuilding teams like SF, Cleve, NY Jets, Chi aren't adding veteran payroll, Cinn just dumped 2 vet o-line starters and TB and Oak have rock solid tackles.  Sure some other teams could get creative and move some dollars around to create space, but teams simply do not give up draft capital for 32 year old players with 2 years left on their deals.  Brown has $19 million left on his deal and wants MORE than that, so teams aren't taking on that kind of salary AND paying more than a token day 3 pick. 

The hard part to stomach is if this is really JUST about guaranteeing his 2018 salary.  There is no way we are drafting a better LT with whatever late round compensation we would get and it's not like getting $9.75 mil off our books in 2018 is a priority since we've got mountains of space next year and a thin FA market.  Replacing him with a Free Agent would eat into that cap anyway and remember our first pick comes in the 3rd round, so it's not like we are getting an impact starter.  My prediction is that he shows up week 9, plays a week or two then develops a mysterious season ending injury or is popped for roids again and suspended 10 games, like he should have been with his positive test last offseason.  He tolls an accrued year and is released in the offseason and we pray Julie'n Davenport is ready.  Hard to pick sides in this one as it should have never been allowed to get this far and a far better contingency plan needed to be in place, but there is only one guy not showing up to work despite being under contract near the top of the wage scale and screwing over his teammates and fanbase that has "accrued" 16 seasons of frustrations.