Top 10 Players in the league

[champ11]

9 minutes ago, Bullet Club said:

He's coming off one of the GOAT regular seasons and averaged 27-14-6 on 61% TS with 11.2 BPM/31.3 PER in the postseason. 

games 1-3 against the Miami Heat:

22.7/13.3/7.0 1.3 blks .7 steals 45/11/54 shooting splits

obviously a comically small SS but there were 3 playoff games that he played this year that mattered ... listed above 

Edited October 26, 2020 by champ11

[NYRaider]

1 minute ago, beekay414 said:

For sure. I just didn't say that because LeBron got to the Finals and was 1st team All-NBA more often than Giannis has been.

Yeah, LeBron's finals appearances helps for sure, but context is also pretty important. The Eastern Conference was absolutely doo-doo when he made in 2007. They beat the Wizards who's best player was Jamison (Arenas was out), the Pistons who were at the end of their run (Ben Wallace was out), and the Nets who were the 5th seed and went 41-41 in the regular season. 

[beekay414]

1 minute ago, champ11 said:

games 1-3 against the Miami Heat:

22.7/13.3/7.0 1.3 blks .7 steals 45/11/54 shooting splits

Games 1 and 2...

23.5/12.0/6 on 53/33/52 shooting splits and then 19 points on 8-10 shooting game 4 before he got hurt. Funny how one bad game sways things.

[NYRaider]

2 minutes ago, champ11 said:

games 1-3 against the Miami Heat:

22.7/13.3/7.0 1.3 blks .7 steals 45/11/54 shooting splits

I think that's what hurts Giannis the most. 

Last year in the 1st/2nd round he averaged like 27 ppg on 55% FG and in the ECF he averaged like 22 ppg on 44% FG while Kawhi averaged 30 ppg and carried the Raptors. 

This year in the 1st round he averaged 31 on 60% FG and in the 2nd round averaged like 21 ppg on 50% FG while Jimmy Butler carried the Heat. 

[beekay414]

1 minute ago, NYRaider said:

I think that's what hurts Giannis the most. 

Last year in the 1st/2nd round he averaged like 27 ppg on 55% FG and in the ECF he averaged like 22 ppg on 44% FG while Kawhi averaged 30 ppg and carried the Raptors. 

This year in the 1st round he averaged 31 on 60% FG and in the 2nd round averaged like 21 ppg on 50% FG while Jimmy Butler carried the Heat. 

I think that's what proves that he's not the issue. It's the lack of adjustment by Budenholzer when teams dedicate themselves to stopping Giannis with the wall at the FT line. Giannis has to shoot better from 3 in those scenarios but a lot of it results from bad ball movement or playcalls. There's more to the struggles than just Giannis not being "developed" enough. Our offense literally stops when teams start walling off Giannis. How much of that falls on Giannis and how much of that falls on Budenholzer for not adjusting?

[Mox]

14 minutes ago, champ11 said:

games 1-3 against the Miami Heat:

22.7/13.3/7.0 1.3 blks .7 steals 45/11/54 shooting splits

obviously a comically small SS but there were 3 playoff games that he played this year that mattered ... listed above 

Game 1  18-10-9 50/40/33 -meh

Game 2  29-14-3 56/0/69 -good

Game 3  21/16/9 33/0/58 -meh

He missed FT's in game 1 and sucked at shooting in game 3. Big deal. In game 4 he had 19/4 on 80% in 11 minutes before he got hurt. He had one of the best regular seasons of all time. His overall postseason numbers were tremendous. Yet he's 5th or 6th because of two games where he still averaged 19.5/13/9 and was playing incredible in game 4 prior to injury. If you want to bump him down due to half a playoff series that's fine but that's not enough for me. Especially considering the postseason choking we routinely see from Harden, Kawhi's choking worse literally this year, and Curry not exactly being a postseason overachiever himself. 

Edited October 26, 2020 by Bullet Club

[beekay414]

I mean, Giannis in 17 and 18 vs the Raptors and Celtics as an underdog under Kidd...

25.3 PTS, 9.5 REB, 5.2 AST, 1.8 STL, 1.2 BLK, 2.8 TOV on 55.4/33.3/62.4 in 40 minutes a night

Why wasn't he a supposed liability in those series?

[NYRaider]

5 minutes ago, beekay414 said:

I think that's what proves that he's not the issue. It's the lack of adjustment by Budenholzer when teams dedicate themselves to stopping Giannis with the wall at the FT line. Giannis has to shoot better from 3 in those scenarios but a lot of it results from bad ball movement or playcalls. There's more to the struggles than just Giannis not being "developed" enough. Our offense literally stops when teams start walling off Giannis. How much of that falls on Giannis and how much of that falls on Budenholzer for not adjusting?

Of course. But that's not what the average fans sees or understands. That falls not only on Bud but also on your front office for how they've constructed your roster. Everyone gives Giannis a ton of flack but other than Middleton he hasn't had that many great teammates around him in Milwaukee. When LeBron won in Miami/Cleveland he had an All-Star #2 playmaker, when he won in LA he had another top 5 player as his #2 and even they looked so much better once they got Rondo back and had a secondary creator. When Durant won his two titles he had Curry and Klay plus a bunch of other shooters and playmakers around him. When Kawhi won in Toronto he had an All-Star level PG in Lowry, an emerging All-Star forward in Siakam plus a bunch of other shooters around him. 

[NYRaider]

11 minutes ago, beekay414 said:

Why wasn't he a supposed liability in those series?

Because perspective has changed. In 17/18 he was an All-Star just entering super stardom. While in 19/20 he was the MVP so people expect him to be able to take over in playoff series and show why he's considered the best player in the league.

[beekay414]

1 minute ago, NYRaider said:

Of course. But that's not what the average fans sees or understands. That falls not only on Bud but also on your front office for how they've constructed your roster. Everyone gives Giannis a ton of flack but other than Middleton he hasn't had that many great teammates around him in Milwaukee. When LeBron won in Miami/Cleveland he had an All-Star #2 playmaker, when he won in LA he had another top 5 player as his #2 and even they looked so much better once they got Rondo back and had a secondary creator. When Durant won his two titles he had Curry and Klay plus a bunch of other shooters and playmakers around him. When Kawhi won in Toronto he had an All-Star level PG in Lowry, an emerging All-Star forward in Siakam plus a bunch of other shooters around him. 

That's what happens when your franchise is small market and squanders almost every single pick for a decade. We got flat out lucky with Giannis otherwise we'd be the Pistons.

[NYRaider]

Just now, beekay414 said:

That's what happens when your franchise is small market and squanders almost every single pick for a decade. We got flat out lucky with Giannis otherwise we'd be the Pistons.

Giannis run so far in Milwaukee is eerily similar to LeBron's first stint in Cleveland. The East is just better and deeper now then it was back then. If this Bucks team was transported back in time to the same era LeBron entered the league Giannis would have a Finals appearance as well. And his greatness in the regular season kind of hides some of your teams deficiencies that have gotten exposed in the playoffs. 

[beekay414]

Just now, NYRaider said:

Because perspective has changed. In 17/18 he was an All-Star just entering super stardom. While in 19/20 he was the MVP so people expect him to be able to take over in playoff series and show why he's considered the best player in the league.

No, I know what people see. I'm just saying, Giannis was able to post an efficient stat line (and 33% from 3 from him is good lol) vs teams that were clearly better than his team (and pushed them to 6 and 7 games btw). Why, all of a sudden, when he plays a good team in the playoffs, does he struggle? I mean, it's the same thing and yet the coaching staff changed nothing. I don't know, man. I just think people put too much emphasis on certain things without taking everything into context. Yes, Giannis needs to execute better in those situations but the coaching staff also has to be better. Something that simple shouldn't completely shut down our offense. That's on more than just one guy.

[Mox]

1 minute ago, beekay414 said:

No, I know what people see. I'm just saying, Giannis was able to post an efficient stat line (and 33% from 3 from him is good lol) vs teams that were clearly better than his team (and pushed them to 6 and 7 games btw). Why, all of a sudden, when he plays a good team in the playoffs, does he struggle? I mean, it's the same thing and yet the coaching staff changed nothing. I don't know, man. I just think people put too much emphasis on certain things without taking everything into context. Yes, Giannis needs to execute better in those situations but the coaching staff also has to be better. Something that simple shouldn't completely shut down our offense. That's on more than just one guy.

People were also hating on LeBron for losing to Orlando in 2009. A lot of times people aren't paying attention to what's actually going on.

[beekay414]

1 minute ago, NYRaider said:

Giannis run so far in Milwaukee is eerily similar to LeBron's first stint in Cleveland. The East is just better and deeper now then it was back then. If this Bucks team was transported back in time to the same era LeBron entered the league Giannis would have a Finals appearance as well. And his greatness in the regular season kind of hides some of your teams deficiencies that have gotten exposed in the playoffs. 

For sure. The let it fly motto that Bud employs only works in the playoffs if you have consistent shooters. You're also playing the same team every game so you need to learn to adjust both in-game and game-to-game. Bud does neither or, if he does, he adjusts for one game and then reverts right back. It's maddening. 

[beekay414]

1 minute ago, Bullet Club said:

People were also hating on LeBron for losing to Orlando in 2009. A lot of times people aren't paying attention to what's actually going on.

That's the god damn truth