Calvin Johnson elected as first-ballot Hall of Famer

[Superduperman]

11 minutes ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

I mean, if the "wall of text" is right...

We're not allowed on this site to debate whether it is right or not (imagine that), so I can't take the discussion any further. But if you think that the majority of NFL players don't see it the way I do, and you think the Lions will be just fine with their players, and potential future players, if they look at it the way you do, then you're wrong.

[TL-TwoWinsAway]

1 minute ago, Superduperman said:

We're not allowed on this site to debate whether it is right or not (imagine that), so I can't take the discussion any further. But if you think that the majority of NFL players don't see it the way I do, and you think the Lions will be just fine with their players, and potential future players, if they look at it the way you do, then you're wrong.

If the majority of NFL players think that they should be allowed to keep massive signing bonuses despite knowing that they wouldn't be completing those contracts, and signing the contract aware that those bonuses could be revoked under those conditions, then THEY are wrong. If they don't like it, they should refuse to sign that contract.

[Uncle Buck]

On 2/13/2021 at 8:22 PM, BarryTheBest said:

Good research there. My biggest objection to this is that yes, the bylaws state that on field achievements are the sole criteria, but the people still have to be voted in. The voters will always consider character subconsciously or otherwise when casting. Going back to TO, he should have been a first ballet inductee with out question, yet he waited 5 years to get in... The bylaws seem more like guidelines to me. 

I'm not sure about the exact guidelines, but one thing that I think is fair to take into consideration is what a player brings to the team's success from the standpoint of being a great teammate.  Calvin Johnson was never anything but an absolute asset from that standpoint in everything we could tell as fans. 

T.O., on the other hand, is a different story.  Everybody always talks about his stats when they argue that he deserved to be a first ballot guy.  That's all well and good, but what about his behavior in the locker room or even on the field in dealing with coaches, coordinators, teammates, etc.?  It could be argued that there are some ways in which his behavior was actually a detriment to the team's success.  This could be a justifiable reason for making him wait (even though the probability is that the press people doing the voting were just salty because of the way he treated them.)  Does he deserve to be in?  Absolutely, but I do think it could be argued that Megatron was a more valuable asset to the team overall than T.O. was.

[Uncle Buck]

I'd like to add one more thing when it comes to character with the Hall of Fame and their inductees.  Just compare the post-induction behavior of Terrell Owens and the great Barry Sanders.

If ever there was a player who has earned the right to be cocky about his talent and success as a player in the NFL it would be Barry Sanders.  The thing is, just look at the absolutely sterling manner in which he conducts himself publicly.  The man is always a total professional and a complete gentleman who is nothing but humble.  I'm not even a Lions fan and I've come away from interviews of his where I was just smiling in admiration of the guy.  If the NFL created the Hall of Fame for a reason, it was to give people a way to remember their greats.  From the day he was drafted, through every snap of his career, through his induction speech, and every interview since then, Barry Sanders has been an absolute shining star that the NFL, the Detroit Lions, and their fans could be proud of.

Now compare that to T.O.  He whined incessantly about not going in on the first ballot.  When they finally did induct him, he rewarded their honor by refusing to show up to accept the award and make the customary speech.  Since then, he has badmouthed the Hall of Fame every chance he has had and he is now taking shots at players like Calvin Johnson who actually did conduct themselves as professionals during their career.  As far as I'm concerned, every time T.O. opens his big trap, he provides the HOF Committee further justification the decision they made in making him wait.

What a difference between the talented knucklehead that is Terrell Owens and the utter greatness that is Barry Sanders. 

[Karnage84]

6 hours ago, Uncle Buck said:

I'd like to add one more thing when it comes to character with the Hall of Fame and their inductees.  Just compare the post-induction behavior of Terrell Owens and the great Barry Sanders.

If ever there was a player who has earned the right to be cocky about his talent and success as a player in the NFL it would be Barry Sanders.  The thing is, just look at the absolutely sterling manner in which he conducts himself publicly.  The man is always a total professional and a complete gentleman who is nothing but humble.  I'm not even a Lions fan and I've come away from interviews of his where I was just smiling in admiration of the guy.  If the NFL created the Hall of Fame for a reason, it was to give people a way to remember their greats.  From the day he was drafted, through every snap of his career, through his induction speech, and every interview since then, Barry Sanders has been an absolute shining star that the NFL, the Detroit Lions, and their fans could be proud of.

Now compare that to T.O.  He whined incessantly about not going in on the first ballot.  When they finally did induct him, he rewarded their honor by refusing to show up to accept the award and make the customary speech.  Since then, he has badmouthed the Hall of Fame every chance he has had and he is now taking shots at players like Calvin Johnson who actually did conduct themselves as professionals during their career.  As far as I'm concerned, every time T.O. opens his big trap, he provides the HOF Committee further justification the decision they made in making him wait.

What a difference between the talented knucklehead that is Terrell Owens and the utter greatness that is Barry Sanders. 

Buck, what are your thoughts on someone who is in the HOF but is then found out to be a horrible person. A great example is someone like OJ Simpson. 

If we're considering character coming into the HOF, do you feel that character should be considered in keeping someone IN the HOF? Once you're in, you're in? The HOF should be dictated by what they do on the field alone? Should only include football related activities on and off the field (which is where TO would get nailed)?

[Uncle Buck]

5 minutes ago, Karnage84 said:

Buck, what are your thoughts on someone who is in the HOF but is then found out to be a horrible person. A great example is someone like OJ Simpson. 

If we're considering character coming into the HOF, do you feel that character should be considered in keeping someone IN the HOF? Once you're in, you're in? The HOF should be dictated by what they do on the field alone? Should only include football related activities on and off the field (which is where TO would get nailed)?

OJ is an interesting subject.  I guess if it were up to me, I would keep him in because while he was with the league, we never heard about any problems with his character.  He was actually very well loved during those years and for a long time after he retired.  I'd probably just leave him in and understand that everyone would be aware of the obvious footnote to his legacy.

[BarryTheBest]

On 2/21/2021 at 8:21 AM, Uncle Buck said:

I'm not sure about the exact guidelines, but one thing that I think is fair to take into consideration is what a player brings to the team's success from the standpoint of being a great teammate.  Calvin Johnson was never anything but an absolute asset from that standpoint in everything we could tell as fans. 

T.O., on the other hand, is a different story.  Everybody always talks about his stats when they argue that he deserved to be a first ballot guy.  That's all well and good, but what about his behavior in the locker room or even on the field in dealing with coaches, coordinators, teammates, etc.?  It could be argued that there are some ways in which his behavior was actually a detriment to the team's success.  This could be a justifiable reason for making him wait (even though the probability is that the press people doing the voting were just salty because of the way he treated them.)  Does he deserve to be in?  Absolutely, but I do think it could be argued that Megatron was a more valuable asset to the team overall than T.O. was.

You really just extrapolated on what I was saying. While the guidelines are stats only, character will always be considered by voters.

[BarryTheBest]

On 2/21/2021 at 2:56 PM, Uncle Buck said:

OJ is an interesting subject.  I guess if it were up to me, I would keep him in because while he was with the league, we never heard about any problems with his character.  He was actually very well loved during those years and for a long time after he retired.  I'd probably just leave him in and understand that everyone would be aware of the obvious footnote to his legacy.

OJ is a very interesting case study to say the least. I think what this all goes back to is yes, football accomplishments are what the hall was originally designed for. That said, we now live in an age where every action, social media post, etc is scrutinized amd dissected. It seems to me that the nfl should probably look to update the bylaws on entry to include character and off the field works to align with the times, since voters are considering those factors anyway. As for OJ, I would probably agree with Buck.