The Car Thread

[RaidersAreOne]

24 minutes ago, bigbadbuff said:

Gross

I don't think I've seen a more split opinion on almost anything than Tesla's, it's hilarious. I have heard some will never choose another brand ever again, then others think they are grossly overpriced and a complete joke. 

What is with all the hate with Tesla for you?

[MikeT14]

32 minutes ago, RaidersAreOne said:

I don't think I've seen a more split opinion on almost anything than Tesla's, it's hilarious. I have heard some will never choose another brand ever again, then others think they are grossly overpriced and a complete joke. 

What is with all the hate with Tesla for you?

More hype without result than anything else

[Tugboat]

2 hours ago, RaidersAreOne said:

I honestly always thought so poorly of them. When I thought of Kia I thought of cheap, boring and safe. But they look pretty techy and nice imo.

Sorento:

Sportage:

Telluride:

Kia have been doing some pretty good exterior styling for quite a while now imo.  Ever since they poached that guy from Aston Martin or whatever it was, they started making better looking cars.

Unfortunately, they're still built to a kind of iffy standard, to a price point.  They get all the little details wrong.  Especially when it comes to driving dynamics and the interior quality.  They cram it full of "tech" and "features", but the actual fundamental build quality, styling, and ergonomics just still aren't there.

Some people just don't seem to notice.  And good for them i guess.  But they just feel so cheap and kinda tacky to me.  You sit in one and it's immediately just like...all of the window dressing is there, but none of it is done quite right.  It's all like the ~veneer~ of a nice car, with none of the substance.

 

2 hours ago, RaidersAreOne said:

I don't think I've seen a more split opinion on almost anything than Tesla's, it's hilarious. I have heard some will never choose another brand ever again, then others think they are grossly overpriced and a complete joke. 

What is with all the hate with Tesla for you?

Biggest thing with Tesla is that they're a focal point for everything that's wrong with the industry these days.  It's all wizzbang tech and pushing the envelope of ever more stupid innovations that actually make cars worse and the roads more dangerous for everyone.  They're trying to redefine what "luxury" is.  Instead of just quality engineering, parts, materials and craftsmanship, they're shifting the idea of luxury to be about fancy distracting peripheral tech features and ipads.  And by the nature of the way they're "marketed", they draw a lot more attention than everything else. 

 

They also have the most constant, really concerning recalls for insane stuff that no other car maker would get away with, and the build quality is just an absolute joke.  Especially when it comes to things like random part sourcing, where they cut every corner possible...so your Tesla might have a part sourced from any one of fifty different parts suppliers, depending on what was cheapest the month that your specific car got built.

And then there's the way the workers that build them are treated...which is less about the car itself, and more about a sort of moral imperative.  But it does negatively affect the quality of the actual vehicles as well.

[Tugboat]

On 6/19/2024 at 4:15 PM, agarcia34 said:

I have a Honda Civic. Nice car had it for almost 2 years now. Lately been wanting a SUV type of vehicle. Saw this Volkswagen Atlas a month ago and it really caught my attention. Looking to trade in my civic for one. Never had a Volkswagen or any German car before. Are there any known issues with Volkswagen 

To actually elaborate on this...

 

VWs have pretty much always had a host of electrical issues.  They've historically been pretty well built and well engineered in general.  Good cars.  And they have a reputation for lasting a long time.  But owning a VW, especially as it ages a bit...does often turn into a fun game of having to troubleshoot weird electronics glitches.

 

They've also been really shifting away from the build quality that they used to have, to move down market with most of their models.  It started a long time ago, back in the mid-90s, but at this point...they basically don't even build anything in Germany anymore.  Used to just be some models that were built in Mexico and stuff, but now they're all built in Mexico, or Czechia, or Brazil, or worse...Tennessee.  So they're really barely even "German cars" anymore.

Edited July 15 by Tugboat

[bigbadbuff]

6 hours ago, RaidersAreOne said:

I don't think I've seen a more split opinion on almost anything than Tesla's, it's hilarious. I have heard some will never choose another brand ever again, then others think they are grossly overpriced and a complete joke. 

What is with all the hate with Tesla for you?

I work in the business. They are a sack of bricks for depreciation, most EV’s are, but Teslas are overpriced, don’t offer the same incentives, and frankly fail in comparison to the other EV’s on the market. 
 

 

[bigbadbuff]

3 hours ago, Tugboat said:

To actually elaborate on this...

 

VWs have pretty much always had a host of electrical issues.  They've historically been pretty well built and well engineered in general.  Good cars.  And they have a reputation for lasting a long time.  But owning a VW, especially as it ages a bit...does often turn into a fun game of having to troubleshoot weird electronics glitches.

 

They've also been really shifting away from the build quality that they used to have, to move down market with most of their models.  It started a long time ago, back in the mid-90s, but at this point...they basically don't even build anything in Germany anymore.  Used to just be some models that were built in Mexico and stuff, but now they're all built in Mexico, or Czechia, or Brazil, or worse...Tennessee.  So they're really barely even "German cars" anymore.

Yep. When I started selling cars in 2019 I was selling new VW’s, the shift since then is appalling.

The niche market they had with the sportwagen, Alltrack, and golf was such a different clientele. Those were true “VW” people that wanted character out of their car that you couldn’t get anywhere else. Now with their current lineup they don’t stick out from any other brand. Funny enough, I have an ID4. I did a 1 year lease to try an EV, it’s been cool, drives nice, but I HATE and I mean HATE that VW has gone to the full iPad looking screen. No knobs to control climate just neuters it for me.

 

I am a Japanese manufacturer through and through. I love Toyota, I flipped a 4Runner a few years ago and made a good buck, but I miss it even though the tech was a dinosaur. I’ve had TRD Camry, and also an RX for a short period of time. Awesome quality cars that hold value. Same with Honda.

I know it’s different because most people don’t care about resale value like I do because I get multiple new cars a year. (Nature of the beast working in auto sales), but that’s what I value. 
 

I’m actually in the midst of getting a 25 Camry XSE. This might actually be the one I keep for a few years lol!

[bigbadbuff]

@RaidersAreOne go check out a Highlander or Grand Highlander. Both around the same price point as an Atlas if you’re looking brand new. 

[Tugboat]

1 hour ago, bigbadbuff said:

Yep. When I started selling cars in 2019 I was selling new VW’s, the shift since then is appalling.

The niche market they had with the sportwagen, Alltrack, and golf was such a different clientele. Those were true “VW” people that wanted character out of their car that you couldn’t get anywhere else. Now with their current lineup they don’t stick out from any other brand. Funny enough, I have an ID4. I did a 1 year lease to try an EV, it’s been cool, drives nice, but I HATE and I mean HATE that VW has gone to the full iPad looking screen. No knobs to control climate just neuters it for me.

 

I am a Japanese manufacturer through and through. I love Toyota, I flipped a 4Runner a few years ago and made a good buck, but I miss it even though the tech was a dinosaur. I’ve had TRD Camry, and also an RX for a short period of time. Awesome quality cars that hold value. Same with Honda.

I know it’s different because most people don’t care about resale value like I do because I get multiple new cars a year. (Nature of the beast working in auto sales), but that’s what I value. 
 

I’m actually in the midst of getting a 25 Camry XSE. This might actually be the one I keep for a few years lol!

It feels like there's been a real weird game of musical chairs with a lot of brands lately.

 

Like VW is punching downward going after the Kia/Hyundai sort of market now.  Hyundai are punching up at like Cadillac and stuff with the whole Genesis brand.  And Mazda are weirdly kinda moving into the space where VW used to be.

 

And Toyota are just continuing to build kind of bland and not really that nice, but really solid no fuss cars.  Their trucks, idk what they're doing.  They seem to be shooting themselves in the foot with those.  Taking the one thing that they were legendary for, and messing it up with overly complicated and not nearly as reliable motors and things.

 

And Volvo are out there just YOLOing by getting insanely expensive, trying to move upmarket as a "luxury brand"...while actually dropping their quality massively.

 

And then all the American companies just stopped making actual cars altogether.  So there's that.  And it's just like Honda and Toyota that builds cars in North America now.  🤷‍♀️

Edited July 16 by Tugboat

[bigbadbuff]

6 hours ago, Tugboat said:

It feels like there's been a real weird game of musical chairs with a lot of brands lately.

 

Like VW is punching downward going after the Kia/Hyundai sort of market now.  Hyundai are punching up at like Cadillac and stuff with the whole Genesis brand.  And Mazda are weirdly kinda moving into the space where VW used to be.

 

And Toyota are just continuing to build kind of bland and not really that nice, but really solid no fuss cars.  Their trucks, idk what they're doing.  They seem to be shooting themselves in the foot with those.  Taking the one thing that they were legendary for, and messing it up with overly complicated and not nearly as reliable motors and things.

 

And Volvo are out there just YOLOing by getting insanely expensive, trying to move upmarket as a "luxury brand"...while actually dropping their quality massively.

 

And then all the American companies just stopped making actual cars altogether.  So there's that.  And it's just like Honda and Toyota that builds cars in North America now.  🤷‍♀️

Yep, the Toyota refresh of the Highlander has been a big hit, the new Camry looks to be a big hit as well, but yeah with the Tundra…not selling nearly as well. The Tacoma is RIDICULOUSLY expensive, as is the Land Cruiser, and sequoia. New 4Runner pricing hasn’t come out yet but I’m sure that is going to be 60k plus for any decent trim. Yet they have almost no cars on the lot and have the market by the balls. 
 

I’ve been looking for a sedan, that isn’t considered “luxury” and it kept coming down to Accord vs Camry… I considered a jetta but decided to pay up. The mid size sedan market in the states is dead. There’s the Accord, Camry, K5, Sonata, and legacy. Shame. I’ve grown to be more of a sedan guy too.