WFT OTC II: Pick 51 (Zaven Collins #19)

[turtle28]

8 minutes ago, 4209 said:

Here are some of my late rd prospects that are weak in some areas but strong in other areas but they have a chance to be coached up. A few of them like Grant have the versatility that we need b/c we blew a lot deep coverage's last yr (the Detroit game for one). The signing of Jackson will allow us to play a little more man coverage and more cover 1.

 

Richie Grant 

Caden Sterns

Hamsah Nasirildeen

Richard LeCounte

Paris Ford      

Tyler Coyle

Marcus Murphy

Kolby Harvell-Peel

Qwynnterrio Cole

Andre Cisco     

I don’t think Grant & Cisco will be late round picks. Grant may sneak into the 1st and I doubt it but may fall to the 3rd at the latest. I think Cisco most likely goes in the 2nd or early 3rd.

The rest I agree will be mid to late round picks but I’m not sure they’re upgrades at S but of course like you said if you’re taking them in the mid to late rounds you’re looking for someone who has skills and you need to coach them up.

So I’m with you on the rest. 

[MikeT14]

Paris Ford is also 100% my "if he's there in the late rounds just do it because tape don't lie" prospect.

[4209]

Yeap I concur with Grant as a matter of fact I toke Grant at 51 in this post. Thanks for catching that. So I clearly did not think he (Grant) was a late rounder. Now for Cisco it is different. I put Cisco down because of the acl injure and would not be back before the season starts at least that's what I read sometime ago.  Cisco really 2nd or 3rd rd. WOW!!! Either way we should have some option at safety in the later rds if we miss out on a safety in the early rds. But if possible we should take a safety early. I wouldn't force it though. 

[turtle28]

31 minutes ago, MikeT14 said:

Paris Ford is also 100% my "if he's there in the late rounds just do it because tape don't lie" prospect.

[e16bball]

I’m torn between a couple guys, but I’m going with Richie Grant here. 

I have Nick Bolton rated a little higher than Grant. But I feel like if you’re rolling with Holcomb and Zaven as your OLBs, you need a MLB who will be a bit more of a rangy athlete than Bolton is. I think he would need to be surrounded by at least one OLB who is going to handle a lot of the tougher man coverage assignments. 

Rondale Moore has been one of my favorite college players for years. But I believe signing Curtis Samuel has basically taken him off the board for us, as they’re very very similar players. Not being able to take him bothers me. 

I think Eichenberg is probably a RT in the league, and while I like Radunz, I don’t know that I’m 100% sold on him.

Richie Grant is a really good athlete, and by all reports has a lot of the intangibles we’ve relied on in building this defense. The idea of pairing him with Kam Curl is pretty exciting — I think it would be a pretty typical split safety duo, but Grant would be more the coverage guy and Curl would be more the box guy.

[turtle28]

24 minutes ago, 4209 said:

Yeap I concur with Grant as a matter of fact I toke Grant at 51 in this post. Thanks for catching that. So I clearly did not think he (Grant) was a late rounder. Now for Cisco it is different. I put Cisco down because of the acl injure and would not be back before the season starts at least that's what I read sometime ago.  Cisco really 2nd or 3rd rd. WOW!!! Either way we should have some option at safety in the later rds if we miss out on a safety in the early rds. But if possible we should take a safety early. I wouldn't force it though. 

I’ve been seeing Cisco mocked in the 2nd & 3rd rounds for a long time now. I’ll have to check out about the ACL injury and a time table for his return, I assumed he could be back for the preseason but maybe that’s not the case as you said.

[turtle28]

3 minutes ago, e16bball said:

I’m torn between a couple guys, but I’m going with Richie Grant here. 

I have Nick Bolton rated a little higher than Grant. But I feel like if you’re rolling with Holcomb and Zaven as your OLBs, you need a MLB who will be a bit more of a rangy athlete than Bolton is. I think he would need to be surrounded by at least one OLB who is going to handle a lot of the tougher man coverage assignments. 

You know more football than me and are a better evaluator for sure but to me it seems like you’re trying to find the perfect LB corps when in all likelihood that’s not going to happen at least not in just this offseason.

A few thoughts for you:

1. If we did take Bolton after taking Zaven, do you think our LB corps isn’t going to be rangy enough to the point where Zaven, Bolton & Holcomb wouldn’t be a good corps? I think the 3 of them as starters would be solid but considering the way the league is now with a lot of 3 wide and less power formation for running our D will continue to be in the nickel a lot so that could be an issue there if these are your 3 starting LBs.

2. If we take Zaven Collins do you think he could play MLB?
 

I’ve heard some comps to Urlacher for him and I think it may be a good comp. if Collins can play MLB that would solve that issue.

3. If not Zaven Collins to MLB, do you think Holcomb can play MLB?

Ive heard people say that Holcomb isn’t strong enough at the point of attack in the run game to be a MLB and that’s why he’s better on the outside. Then, he’s also not the best in coverage but he was better last year in coverage than he was as a rookie.

Like when I go over this is just makes my head spin. 😂 

I want a good to great LB corps so bad but I definitely don’t think we should be drafting redundant LBs. I guess that’s why it would be so key to get a really athletic LB who we know can handle the coverage stuff. Then, I also think that a LB corps of Zaven, Bolton & Holcomb would be really solid on 1st & 2nd downs but we’d have to do something different for the nickel/3rd & long bc we’d need a good coverage LB out there and then there’s also the fact that for this entire decade we’ve played the nickel on D about 2/3 of time this entire decade so we should factor that in when we’re drafting our future LB corps.

 

[MikeT14]

2 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

 

2. If we take Zaven Collins do you think he could play MLB?
 

I’ve heard some comps to Urlacher for him and I think it may be a good comp. if Collins can play MLB that would solve that issue.

Wow, really? I'm missing something. I'll have to go watch again looking for that. I always saw him more rushing/rangey LB type. 

[MKnight82]

2 minutes ago, MikeT14 said:

Wow, really? I'm missing something. I'll have to go watch again looking for that. I always saw him more rushing/rangey LB type. 

He is.  He's not going to be a MLB in the NFL.

[turtle28]

3 minutes ago, MikeT14 said:

Wow, really? I'm missing something. I'll have to go watch again looking for that. I always saw him more rushing/rangey LB type. 

I’ll try to find it, it was on one of those draft prospect sites where they break down the prospect his positives, negatives, then do a comp and an overall thought/conclusion type final paragraph.

 

[MikeT14]

1 minute ago, MKnight82 said:

He is.  He's not going to be a MLB in the NFL.

I mean I don't think so either, but I guess the question is, could he be? I dunno. I'd rather get someone seen to be that. I was doing a quick check, and people do have him listed as a possible Mike, but I'm not buying it. 

[turtle28]

Just now, MikeT14 said:

I mean I don't think so either, but I guess the question is, could he be? I dunno. I'd rather get someone seen to be that. I was doing a quick check, and people do have him listed as a possible Mike, but I'm not buying it. 

Well I would say that when Urlacher was drafted most people didn’t think he was going to play MLB & Certainly didn’t think he’d have the career he did. 
 

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/zaven-collins/3200434f-4c71-2276-ee5d-d6185f3c66ad

Lance Zierlien’s comp for Zaven Collins is Leighton Vander Esch which I think is a perfect comp.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/04/27/zaven-collins-ceiling-could-be-no-16/amp/

So, it was Mike Florio who wrote it in an article two days ago but I don’t think Florio would just say that, he hears things from scouts, Gms or whoever. Also, don’t forget who was on the defensive staff of the Bears was when they drafted Urlacher... you guessed Ron Rivera. Then, he came back to the Bears in 2006 after going to the Eagles as their LB coach to be the Bears Defensive Coordinator in 2004. So, It could’ve actually been Rivera who said that to Florio given Rivera developed Urlacher.

”Linebackers with his size and skills are rare, because players with his measurables usually end up elsewhere.

“I really don’t have a comp that’s kind of similar to me, because most linebackers like me have disappeared,” Collins has said. “People my size are usually on the edge rushing.”

Given his size and the fact that he played quarterback in high school, he’s drawing comparisons to Brian Urlacher, the ninth player taken in the 2000 draft and the only member of that draft class currently in the Hall of Fame.”

[MikeT14]

Lane Johnson played QB in high school too. 

[turtle28]

19 minutes ago, MikeT14 said:

I mean I don't think so either, but I guess the question is, could he be? I dunno. I'd rather get someone seen to be that. I was doing a quick check, and people do have him listed as a possible Mike, but I'm not buying it. 

Yeah, all I’m saying is there’s a possibility. I definitely agree with you and Mknight that he’s more SLB than MLB to me but someone told Mike Florio that and given that the WFT is listed in the article as a team that’s interested in Collins & Ron Rivera’s ties to Brian Urlacher it could’ve actually been Rivera or DelRio who told Florio that when he asked them about draft prospects.

Obviously I don’t know for sure, but it’s something to think about.

[turtle28]

Just now, MikeT14 said:

Lane Johnson played QB in high school too. 

I mean come on dude. If this is going to be you’re response then there’s really no point in being on the board. Wtf