The "Unwritten Rules"

[Turnobili]

Can we all agree that a lot of this stuff is archaic and doesn't have a place in the game anymore? Looking at the recent incident with Yermin Mercedes, with his own manager throwing him under the bus and giving the other team a pass for trying to bean his guys.

Also happened last year when Tatis hit a grand slam late in a game.

if the trailing team isn't going to let up, the leading team shouldn't either. this isn't a U12 soccer league with mercy rules. if you want the other team to stop trying, then just forfeit. instead the Twins trotted out a position player to pitch... just insulting the game and telling their opponents that they no longer care about the game, and then get all butt-hurt over the other team taking him yard?

just seems like rules designed to protect soft, sensitive players.

[mse326]

I can't say that all the unwritten rules are bad*. There are so many I don't think anyone knows them all to even give a good list of the good and bad ones. I can say well over 90% are bad. And I think throwing at anyone intentionally for any reason is ridiculous so I'm against "retaliation". This rule I agree is one of the ones that are bad. Beyond the reasons you say, you can't give players incentives in their contracts for performance and then tell them not to perform.

 

*Just by way of giving an unwritten rule I agree with, I am against bunting for a basehit late in a no hitter or perfect game when the game is realistically out of reach. I know realistically is doing some work there but like 9th inning up 12 I think most, if not all, would agree is out of reach. I know some take this "rule" even further to say no bunting for a basehit late but that I don't agree with. If the game is still in the balance it is perfectly reasonable to do what gives you best chance of winning which means getting on base.

[Turnobili]

1 hour ago, mse326 said:

I can't say that all the unwritten rules are bad*. There are so many I don't think anyone knows them all to even give a good list of the good and bad ones. I can say well over 90% are bad. And I think throwing at anyone intentionally for any reason is ridiculous so I'm against "retaliation". This rule I agree is one of the ones that are bad. Beyond the reasons you say, you can't give players incentives in their contracts for performance and then tell them not to perform.

 

*Just by way of giving an unwritten rule I agree with, I am against bunting for a basehit late in a no hitter or perfect game when the game is realistically out of reach. I know realistically is doing some work there but like 9th inning up 12 I think most, if not all, would agree is out of reach. I know some take this "rule" even further to say no bunting for a basehit late but that I don't agree with. If the game is still in the balance it is perfectly reasonable to do what gives you best chance of winning which means getting on base.

why is bunting for a hit worse than swinging for one?

the idea that you should be helping your opponent reach an achievement has always stunned me. like asking the giants to fold in the superbowl so the pats could go 19-0

favre got crap for letting strahan get that sack, but its almost expected in baseball

Edited May 20, 2021 by Turnobili

[mse326]

43 minutes ago, Turnobili said:

why is bunting for a hit worse than swinging for one?

the idea that you should be helping your opponent reach an achievement has always stunned me. like asking the giants to fold in the superbowl so the pats could go 19-0

favre got crap for letting strahan get that sack, but its almost expected in baseball

Because you should be playing to win, not just to avoid an "achievement" for the other side. When the game is out of reach the only reason they are bunting is to break up the no-no. Ultimately a no hitter/perfect game doesn't mean anything. It's an achievement but doesn't effect the season at all. Letting a team win obviously would. And no one is saying let them have a no hitter, they are still trying to get a hit.

[Turnobili]

13 minutes ago, mse326 said:

Because you should be playing to win, not just to avoid an "achievement" for the other side. When the game is out of reach the only reason they are bunting is to break up the no-no. Ultimately a no hitter/perfect game doesn't mean anything. It's an achievement but doesn't effect the season at all. Letting a team win obviously would. And no one is saying let them have a no hitter, they are still trying to get a hit.

but is bunting a more effective way of getting on base? what if they employ the shift to protect a perfect? and its a 2-3 run game? i dno. i just dont see why you'd be doing the other team favors. we dont do this in any other sport 

[mse326]

4 minutes ago, Turnobili said:

and its a 2-3 run game

Did you even read my post?

 

4 minutes ago, Turnobili said:

we dont do this in any other sport

Sure we do. In soccer if a player is injured the other team is expected, in most situations, to kick the ball out of play so he can get treatment. And then the other team is expected to give the ball back on the throw in. Pretty much every sport has unwritten rules and what you should and shouldn't do late in a blowout game.

[Turnobili]

1 hour ago, mse326 said:

Did you even read my post?

 

Sure we do. In soccer if a player is injured the other team is expected, in most situations, to kick the ball out of play so he can get treatment. And then the other team is expected to give the ball back on the throw in. Pretty much every sport has unwritten rules and what you should and shouldn't do late in a blowout game.

I don’t see the soccer situation as comparable, really

[MWil23]

Here are the only ones that I hold to:

1. You should NEVER bluff a tag (safety issue, forces a guy to mistime a slide and can result in injury).

2. You shouldn't bunt to break up a no hitter or perfect game after the 5th inning if the game is out of reach.

3. A baserunner should never yell "I got it!" or "Mine!" on a pop up in the infield

4. An opposing player should never yell "You got room!!!" on a pop up our fly ball in foul territory (I saw this once in a college game. A kid crashed hard into the fence on a ball clearly out of play)

5. I also take issue with stealing up 10+ runs late in the game, but it's not really that egregious, especially if it's second base.

 

Bat flips are great.

A pitcher getting excited after a strikeout is great.

Swinging at a 3-0 pitch is great.

Barry Bonds standing at home plate and watching a ball he thinks is going to be a homerun as it bounces off the top of the wall and is held to the world's longest single is just as great as him watching a 500+ foot homer.

[THE DUKE]

In general, I despise the "unwritten" rules.  Play the damn game by the rules of the game.  If a (coward) pitcher intentionally throws at a batter, I think the batter should get to charge the mound with the bat

33 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

1. You should NEVER bluff a tag (safety issue, forces a guy to mistime a slide and can result in injury).

This I can at least agree with, although it should fall under "Don't be an *******" more so than an unwritten rule.

33 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

2. You shouldn't bunt to break up a no hitter or perfect game after the 5th inning if the game is out of reach.

100% complete disagreement.  I've seen 15 run innings in MLB games, the game is almost never out of reach.  You don't want to give up a bunt hit, then don't position your defense to make it available.  If some team is pulling a shift with 2 outs in the bottom of the 9th in a 13-0 game while the pitcher has a perfect game going, i'd give a standing ovation to the guy who lands a bunt down the 3B line for an easy single.

36 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

3. A baserunner should never yell "I got it!" or "Mine!" on a pop up in the infield

I'm pretty sure there is an actual rule against this, it's called offensive interference.

38 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

4. An opposing player should never yell "You got room!!!" on a pop up our fly ball in foul territory (I saw this once in a college game. A kid crashed hard into the fence on a ball clearly out of play)

See above, also falls under my "don't be an *******" theory of how you should play/live.

39 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

5. I also take issue with stealing up 10+ runs late in the game, but it's not really that egregious, especially if it's second base.

100% disagreement.  In bad taste?  Maybe, but they have every right to continue to play the game.  Don't like it, then stop it.

[MWil23]

23 minutes ago, THE DUKE said:

100% disagreement.  In bad taste?  Maybe, but they have every right to continue to play the game.  Don't like it, then stop it.

I view it more like passing for a TD when you could just run out the clock. It's absolutely in the "don't like it, then stop it" camp. It's also generally frowned upon. Like I said, it's not egregious. 

[Turnobili]

1 hour ago, MWil23 said:

I view it more like passing for a TD when you could just run out the clock. It's absolutely in the "don't like it, then stop it" camp. It's also generally frowned upon. Like I said, it's not egregious. 

the reason teams run out the clock is because it ends the game quicker (by giving the other team less time to score), prevents more opportunities for their own players to get injured. its completely to the team's strategic benefit to run out the clock. 

there is zero strategic benefit to laying down and accepting an out or refusing to steal a base, because no matter what you do, the other team is afforded 27 outs

Edited May 20, 2021 by Turnobili

[MWil23]

Just now, Turnobili said:

the reason teams run out the clock is because it ends the game quicker (by giving the other team less time to score), prevents more opportunities for their own players to get injured. its completely to the team's strategic benefit to run out the clock. 

there is zero strategic benefit to laying down and accepting an out or refusing to steal a base, because no matter what you do, the other team is afforded 27 outs

Stealing a base could result in an unnecessary injury, plus analytics say that stealing bases is inherently stupid most of the time. Making a false equivalency about accepting an out/laying down and not stealing a base is absolutely an absurd strawman argument.

[Turnobili]

1 hour ago, THE DUKE said:

100% complete disagreement.  I've seen 15 run innings in MLB games, the game is almost never out of reach.  You don't want to give up a bunt hit, then don't position your defense to make it available.  If some team is pulling a shift with 2 outs in the bottom of the 9th in a 13-0 game while the pitcher has a perfect game going, i'd give a standing ovation to the guy who lands a bunt down the 3B line for an easy single.

this. the idea of having to protect an opposing player's perfect game is just absurd to me. if a basketball player is 1 block/steal away from a quadruple double, should we also get mad at opponents for not serving up an easy block/steal at the end of the game?

i think its absurd to employ the shift and then get mad at a bunt. its like packing the paint or going under every screen and then having surprised pikachu face when somebody pulls up for a jump shot

[Turnobili]

3 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

Stealing a base could result in an unnecessary injury, plus analytics say that stealing bases is inherently stupid most of the time. Making a false equivalency about accepting an out/laying down and not stealing a base is absolutely an absurd strawman argument.

teams attempt to steal bases because of their belief that it will give them an advantage, though. asking them to forego that out of politeness is my fundamental issue. it can be argued that an NFL team up by 10 is better served throwing for a TD with 5 minutes left vs running out the clock, and im sure there are interesting analytics for all these situations. but a team should always be acting in what they believe to be their best interest, that's my overarching point.

if you want to convince a team not to steal bases, point them to analytics that will cause them to think about it, but dont make up crap about how they shouldnt out of politeness or respect. hell, by suggesting that steals are usually stupid and result in too many outs, it might actually be a more respectful way to give the losing team a free out!

Edited May 20, 2021 by Turnobili

[MWil23]

1 minute ago, Turnobili said:

it can be argued that an NFL team up by 10 is better served throwing for a TD with 5 minutes left vs running out the clock, and im sure there are interesting analytics for all these situations.

Are we really suggesting that an NFL team up 10 is the same margin for a baseball team being up 10?