Agree or Disagree: Wins and Losses Should Be A QB Stat

[BobbyPhil1781]

3 hours ago, lancerman said:

It sounds like you just want your opinion validated. A stat is a stat. RB wins is a stat as much as QB wins are a stat. People just put more emphasis on QB wins because they have the greatest influence on the game. 
 

Also that doesn’t really answer my question about Eli. Is using win statistics or volume stat statistics a better lens to see his career. Most people would say his .500 win percentage is far closer to who he was as a player than volume stats that put him as a top 10 all time player. Yes his team won the SB, but in 2011 he had one of the greatest playoff runs for a QB ever and in 07 he made a bunch of gotta have it plays in the playoffs that were necessary to win. That’s counterbalanced by the fact outside those two runs he never won any other playoff games his whole career. And honestly going by playoff wins and regular season wins give a better picture of the player he was. A very inconsistent guy who had very low lows and very high highs that overall wouldn’t, not an all time top 10

Or it sounds like other people share my sentiment. Not sure why this discussion has turned from the topic into three people going after my intentions lol. I don't mind regardless. I've never been shy from defending my stance on things

Please explain how 2007 was one of the greatest playoff runs. I'm curious about your thoughts on that. Aside from that, you're just doing what I've said I don't like when using that as a QB stat and disregarding everyone else on the team. Eli isn't the only person who played in those games lol

[childofpudding]

57 minutes ago, BobbyPhil1781 said:

You don't read. This question has been answered many times. Good luck

I ask that we have a reset for the benefit of our conversation.

Do you think the QB is the most important position on the entire football team? Yes or no?

It's a very simple and direct question.

Edited August 5, 2021 by childofpudding

[BigTrav]

1 hour ago, BobbyPhil1781 said:

How about you actually try and not say **** about the poster? And God forbid I start a thought provoking thread to gather other people's opinions. 

 

You admitted earlier that this isn't your intention. Your intention on this thread was to correct people who had differing views to you

 

By your own words.

 

Delete the thread. 

[lancerman]

1 hour ago, BobbyPhil1781 said:

Or it sounds like other people share my sentiment. Not sure why this discussion has turned from the topic into three people going after my intentions lol. I don't mind regardless. I've never been shy from defending my stance on things

Please explain how 2007 was one of the greatest playoff runs. I'm curious about your thoughts on that. Aside from that, you're just doing what I've said I don't like when using that as a QB stat and disregarding everyone else on the team. Eli isn't the only person who played in those games lol

2011 was. Eli played out of his mind that run. They simply do not win that year if Eli doesn’t elevate his game to an amazing level in the playoffs. 
 

I also don’t care whether other people share the sentiment. It’s not a debatable point. It’s a stat. It is by definition a stat. The only question is how much value you place on it. All stats are contextual. It’s a fact that WR quality impacts QB yard totals, that’s something that has been poured over forever. There’s a reason Brady broke 50 yards when he got Moss, and a couple years before when Wayne was in his 2nd year that Manning was able to break 49 TD’s with a random of Wayne and Harrison. Then years later hit 55 with the most stacked receiving Corp in the league. There’s a reason Mahomes became the third QB to break 50 TD’s with the best TE and WR in the league.

Those are stats and you have to ignore other players to solely attribute them to the QB, when you shouldn’t. 
 

Here’s a running back situation. Demarco Murray had a historic year rushing for 100 yards every game in 2014. He wasn’t some world class historic RB. He just had the best line in the league helping him do it.

Every stat needs context for you to assign any meaningful value to it. QB wins are no different. They are awful for small sample sizes where many of the variables you mentioned can throw off some games. They are much better in a larger career situation. 

Edited August 5, 2021 by lancerman

[BigTrav]

1 hour ago, BobbyPhil1781 said:

 I personally don't acknowledge it in debates except to correct people

 

Quote

Not sure why this discussion has turned from the topic into three people going after my intentions

 

From correcting fools to wahhh why aren't people being nice to me. Nice work, Bob. 

Imagine if a political party had the phrase - 'go with my argument or I won't acknowledge you.' then wondered why people are questioning intentions...

 

 

for the record I am AGAINST using wins for a stat. But I am pro listening to counter arguments

Edited August 5, 2021 by BigTrav

[BobbyPhil1781]

18 minutes ago, BigTrav said:

 

 

From correcting fools to wahhh why aren't people being nice to me. Nice work, Bob. 

Imagine if a political party had the phrase - 'go with my argument or I won't acknowledge you.' then wondered why people are questioning intentions...

 

 

for the record I am AGAINST using wins for a stat. But I am pro listening to counter arguments

Finish the ******* sentence lol.

EDIT: Maybe this will help you (I doubt it)

Them: "QB X is Y-Z"

Me: "This isn't bowling or tennis"

I hope this helps.....

Edited August 5, 2021 by BobbyPhil1781

[BobbyPhil1781]

20 minutes ago, BigTrav said:

You admitted earlier that this isn't your intention. Your intention on this thread was to correct people who had differing views to you

 

By your own words.

 

Delete the thread. 

False. Go away and troll someone else

[BobbyPhil1781]

 

17 minutes ago, lancerman said:

2011 was. Eli played out of his mind that run. They simply do not win that year if Eli doesn’t elevate his game to an amazing level in the playoffs. 
 

I also don’t care whether other people share the sentiment. It’s not a debatable point. It’s a stat. It is by definition a stat. The only question is how much value you place on it. All stats are contextual. It’s a fact that WR quality impacts QB yard totals, that’s something that has been poured over forever. There’s a reason Brady broke 50 yards when he got Moss, and a couple years before when Wayne was in his 2nd year that Manning was able to break 49 TD’s with a random of Wayne and Harrison. Then years later hit 55 with the most stacked receiving Corp in the league. There’s a reason Mahomes became the third QB to break 50 TD’s with the best TE and WR in the league.

Those are stats and you have to ignore other players to solely attribute them to the QB, when you shouldn’t. 
 

Here’s a running back situation. Demarco Murray had a historic year rushing for 100 yards every game in 2014. He wasn’t some world class historic RB. He just had the best line in the league helping him do it.

Every stat needs context for you to assign any meaningful value to it. QB wins are no different. They are awful for small sample sizes where many of the variables you mentioned can throw off some games. They are much better in a larger career situation. 

Just like in 2007 they don't win if the defensive line doesn't play out of their mind.

You're literally making my argument for me that this is a team game lol. We all know it is a stat but the point of the thread is the poll: Do you agree or disagree w/ it. Far and away, people don't agree. This is a team game and every aspect of the team contributes to wins and losses so I feel the fact it gets pinned on one person is asinine. 

Edited August 5, 2021 by BobbyPhil1781

[lancerman]

13 minutes ago, BobbyPhil1781 said:

 

Just like in 2007 they don't win if the defensive line doesn't play out of their mind.

You're literally making my argument for me that this is a team game lol. We all know it is a stat but the point of the thread is the poll: Do you agree or disagree w/ it. Far and away, people don't agree. This is a team game and every aspect of the team contributes to wins and losses so I feel the fact it gets pinned on one person is asinine. 

They don’t win without the helmet catch throw and Eli avoiding multiple defenders either. So one SB needed him to make clutch plays in tandem with a defensive performance and another required him to play out of his mind. 
 

It doesn’t make your point. You are just married to it. You didn’t ask how much value should be pinned on it, you asked whether it should be stat. There’s a factual answer to that question so the results of the poll don’t mean anything. Not that any internet poll ever means anything. 
 

Just be real, you wanted validation or your opinion. You didn’t even address everything I said about yards and TD’s. You have a lower standard for info that validates your take on this and at least several times have brushed off counter information and points. 

[BobbyPhil1781]

19 minutes ago, lancerman said:

They don’t win without the helmet catch throw and Eli avoiding multiple defenders either. So one SB needed him to make clutch plays in tandem with a defensive performance and another required him to play out of his mind. 
 

It doesn’t make your point. You are just married to it. You didn’t ask how much value should be pinned on it, you asked whether it should be stat. There’s a factual answer to that question so the results of the poll don’t mean anything. Not that any internet poll ever means anything. 
 

Just be real, you wanted validation or your opinion. You didn’t even address everything I said about yards and TD’s. You have a lower standard for info that validates your take on this and at least several times have brushed off counter information and points. 

Correct. One playoff run was him playing out of his mind.... while the defense never gave up more than 20 points.....

I did address what you said about yards and TDs. I did this by saying it's a team sport and everyone contributes to everyone's (the team's) success. Like I've said a lot in here, people all agree the QB is the most important player on offense but where does that leave the OL? If they play like ****, doesn't the QB's performance suffer? The point is, this is a team game and I feel, along w/ many others, that assigning the success and failure of a game to one player isn't the right way to go about things. Feel free to make it about me all you want, that's on you, but those aren't my intentions. Something tells me you don't care about me saying that so there's nothing else I can do.

EDIT: And why are the intentions of the thread important? The discussion should be all that matters but maybe you have something else in mind.

Edited August 5, 2021 by BobbyPhil1781