The Ftont office or the coaches?

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

4 hours ago, Fatgerman said:

Im starting to get on board with making Peyton a part of the org. Who could better sit down with the draftable qbs and talk football, routes, throws, coverages, and preperation to decide who the best qb prospect to draft is?? You aint BSing Peyton, not at that position. Heck, if im him, I pimp myself out every draft season to the highest bidder to do that exact job. Just that and nothing else. Make a bundle.

Just because a guy can play the game doesn't mean he's good at evaluating talent.

You ever watch Jordan's Wizards teams?

I get your point, but it's not like Peyton has some advanced knowledge of the game that no one else can match. Any professional coordinator or vet qb should be able to discuss the game on peer level.

[Fatgerman]

3 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Just because a guy can play the game doesn't mean he's good at evaluating talent.

You ever watch Jordan's Wizards teams?

I get your point, but it's not like Peyton has some advanced knowledge of the game that no one else can match. Any professional coordinator or vet qb should be able to discuss the game on peer level.

I do get what youre saying, but look at it a little differently. Peyton wasnt great because of his awesome physical ability; dudes a football savant. Youd be hard pressed to convince me that a guy who put up 30-40 points a game with only his mind, because his arm was barely average after the neck, doesnt know more than most of his peers. He was his own o-coordinater basically. He didnt play, he orchestrated. 

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

7 minutes ago, Fatgerman said:

I do get what youre saying, but look at it a little differently. Peyton wasnt great because of his awesome physical ability; dudes a football savant. Youd be hard pressed to convince me that a guy who put up 30-40 points a game with only his mind, because his arm was barely average after the neck, doesnt know more than most of his peers. He was his own o-coordinater basically. He didnt play, he orchestrated. 

Ken Dorsey may have been able to those things mentally too, but he didn't have Peyton's skill set.

Let's not underestimate the physical talents of a 6'4, 230 lb former 1st overall pick.

[dawgattack]

21 hours ago, ditchdigger said:

So you think the Chief Strategy Officer had a bad grade on him so we passed?

Don't be so obtuse.

Here's the full quote:

"We have to make judgments on the individual players and we're not always going to be right. But in this particular case, we just didn't feel it was necessarily the right bet to make for us at this time. Again, it comes down to individual evaluation of a player. We will not always be right on those type of things.

"I think the hardest part, and where we have to stay the most disciplined, as much as you want a player, you can't invent him if he doesn't exist. In a given year, there may be two or three NFL-ready quarterbacks at the college level. In another year, there literally may be zero. There just may be not be anybody in that year who's good enough to be a top 20 quarterback in the NFL.

"Even though you have a desperate need for one, you have to resist the temptation of taking that guy just because you have a need if you don't believe he's one of those 20 guys at the end of the day. I think that's the hardest part, just maintaining your discipline because you have the need. That's what we did this year."

Was it Paul DePodesta having Pep Hamilton dunking footballs in a bucket of water at Wentz's pro day? Was it Paul DePodesta who said "The earth moved beneath my feet" after RG3's workout?

The fact that we signed RG3 immediately after the Wentz pro day should tell you all you need to know about who is calling the shots at QB, if you choose not to believe the owner or GM who have been adamant about it being Hue's job to pick his QB.

I am merely looking at all the evidence, reading beyond the sensational headlines, and seeing the simple truth. Hue sold himself as the guy who could solve the QB dilemna, as an offensive mastermind, and has failed in all regards. He is a fraud and a liar, and the worst coach in the history of the Browns. 

 

If I was being really obtuse, I'd believe that signing RG3 is what stopped the front office from going after a franchise QB. Or that Hue really does have carte blanche in all QB decisions without needing the front office's blessing.

[bruceb]

26 minutes ago, dawgattack said:

I am merely looking at all the evidence, reading beyond the sensational headlines, and seeing the simple truth. Hue sold himself as the guy who could solve the QB dilemna, as an offensive mastermind, and has failed in all regards. He is a fraud and a liar, and the worst coach in the history of the Browns. 

Well put.

[Fatgerman]

10 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Ken Dorsey may have been able to those things mentally too, but he didn't have Peyton's skill set.

Let's not underestimate the physical talents of a 6'4, 230 lb former 1st overall pick.

Good point

[ditchdigger]

3 hours ago, dawgattack said:

If I was being really obtuse, I'd believe that signing RG3 is what stopped the front office from going after a franchise QB. Or that Hue really does have carte blanche in all QB decisions without needing the front office's blessing.

It's not being obtuse. The evidence is there, if you choose to accept it rather than form theories based on your personal opinion.

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/media-center/videos/DePodesta-Jackson-Brown-Press-Conference-0102/a4ec3b19-0ebf-4d41-b77d-995ece2595cd

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/article-5/Hue-Jackson-Sashi-Brown-Paul-DePodesta-press-conference---12/68f02fa1-0885-4635-91a2-fb6acf90e8a9

On finding the Browns’ QB, Jackson stating that it is his job to find the team’s QB:

Jackson: “Absolutely, I am going to do it.“

On how much the Browns will lean on Jackson to help determine the franchise’s QB:

Brown: “A ton. Hue when we introduced him, we talked about that being one of the reasons we brought him here. We talk a lot. We watch tape on our guys so that we can learn and get on the same page and share ideas, but Hue knows how to identify them, he knows how to develop them and he knows what works for his system. There is no question he and I are going to have to be arm and arm in understanding who we are going to bring into this building to try to solve that position for us long term.”

[ditchdigger]

Hue also said the team wouldn't go 1-15 again.  And that he'd get good play from DeShone Kizer. 

He has said a lot of things, all have been proven to be untrue. 

Dictionary definition of the word fraud.

Quote

A person or thing intended to deceive others, typically by unjustifiably claiming or being credited with accomplishments or qualities.

 

[dawgattack]

10 hours ago, ditchdigger said:

It's not being obtuse. The evidence is there, if you choose to accept it rather than form theories based on your personal opinion.

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/media-center/videos/DePodesta-Jackson-Brown-Press-Conference-0102/a4ec3b19-0ebf-4d41-b77d-995ece2595cd

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/article-5/Hue-Jackson-Sashi-Brown-Paul-DePodesta-press-conference---12/68f02fa1-0885-4635-91a2-fb6acf90e8a9

On finding the Browns’ QB, Jackson stating that it is his job to find the team’s QB:

Jackson: “Absolutely, I am going to do it.“

On how much the Browns will lean on Jackson to help determine the franchise’s QB:

Brown: “A ton. Hue when we introduced him, we talked about that being one of the reasons we brought him here. We talk a lot. We watch tape on our guys so that we can learn and get on the same page and share ideas, but Hue knows how to identify them, he knows how to develop them and he knows what works for his system. There is no question he and I are going to have to be arm and arm in understanding who we are going to bring into this building to try to solve that position for us long term.”

Sashi's quote is full of talk about being "on the same page" and "arm to arm" in determination of franchise QB. That's far from giving Hue full authority and sole responsibility for finding a QB. Yesterday's reports about Hue wanting Wentz in 2016 raise more questions about how much autonomy Hue has been given. If reports are true, it's no wonder Hue and coaching staff have shown so much disdain towards front office.

[dawgattack]

10 hours ago, ditchdigger said:

Hue also said the team wouldn't go 1-15 again.  And that he'd get good play from DeShone Kizer. 

He has said a lot of things, all have been proven to be untrue. 

Dictionary definition of the word fraud.

 

Agreed....Hue talks a lot out of his rear end and is full of melodramatic quotes that make him look dumb in hindsight. 

[dawgdish]

10 hours ago, ditchdigger said:

It's not being obtuse. The evidence is there, if you choose to accept it rather than form theories based on your personal opinion.

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/media-center/videos/DePodesta-Jackson-Brown-Press-Conference-0102/a4ec3b19-0ebf-4d41-b77d-995ece2595cd

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/article-5/Hue-Jackson-Sashi-Brown-Paul-DePodesta-press-conference---12/68f02fa1-0885-4635-91a2-fb6acf90e8a9

On finding the Browns’ QB, Jackson stating that it is his job to find the team’s QB:

Jackson: “Absolutely, I am going to do it.“

On how much the Browns will lean on Jackson to help determine the franchise’s QB:

Brown: “A ton. Hue when we introduced him, we talked about that being one of the reasons we brought him here. We talk a lot. We watch tape on our guys so that we can learn and get on the same page and share ideas, but Hue knows how to identify them, he knows how to develop them and he knows what works for his system. There is no question he and I are going to have to be arm and arm in understanding who we are going to bring into this building to try to solve that position for us long term.”

That "He and I" sure sounds a lot like Hue and Sashi, not "only Hue". If you wan't to make Hue the scapegoat for everything that's wrong with this team, you can certainly formulate that mental theory and then cherry pick quotes to the media all day long to support it . The fact is you don't know what discussions were had behind closed doors, but the man who pulls the trigger, with final say in the organizational structure and in his title is Sashi, so it's willful conjecture to blame it all on Hue.

You can safely and soundly blame every bad coaching decision (and there are plenty), whether offense, defense, or special teams or overall on Hue - he's the head coach, he has the final call and the override, and all of that blame goes with his position. The same goes for Sashi with all draft and contract and Free Agent decisions - he is the top dog with final call and authority, and deserves the credit and blame that go with his position and authority.

[ditchdigger]

8 hours ago, dawgdish said:

That "He and I" sure sounds a lot like Hue and Sashi, not "only Hue". If you wan't to make Hue the scapegoat for everything that's wrong with this team, you can certainly formulate that mental theory and then cherry pick quotes to the media all day long to support it . The fact is you don't know what discussions were had behind closed doors, but the man who pulls the trigger, with final say in the organizational structure and in his title is Sashi, so it's willful conjecture to blame it all on Hue.

You can safely and soundly blame every bad coaching decision (and there are plenty), whether offense, defense, or special teams or overall on Hue - he's the head coach, he has the final call and the override, and all of that blame goes with his position. The same goes for Sashi with all draft and contract and Free Agent decisions - he is the top dog with final call and authority, and deserves the credit and blame that go with his position and authority.

So you get "he and I", but missed all the other parts?

People see what they want to see, I guess. 

[ditchdigger]

10 hours ago, dawgattack said:

Sashi's quote is full of talk about being "on the same page" and "arm to arm" in determination of franchise QB. That's far from giving Hue full authority and sole responsibility for finding a QB. Yesterday's reports about Hue wanting Wentz in 2016 raise more questions about how much autonomy Hue has been given. If reports are true, it's no wonder Hue and coaching staff have shown so much disdain towards front office.

Yesterday's report was complete horsecrap. Reports aren't true. Look at Silver's tweets from the time of the draft. Hue liked Wentz, but nowhere close on 2. All these leaks are Hue trying to protect his reputation so he can get another job next year. Only a sucker would take Mary Kay's story as fact. 

[dawgattack]

9 minutes ago, ditchdigger said:

Yesterday's report was complete horsecrap. Reports aren't true. Look at Silver's tweets from the time of the draft. Hue liked Wentz, but nowhere close on 2. All these leaks are Hue trying to protect his reputation so he can get another job next year. Only a sucker would take Mary Kay's story as fact. 

OK...that's pretty rich. I'm "obtuse" and a "sucker" because I'm open to the possibility that the top guy in the organization's football operations hierarchy likely has a little bit of say regarding the QB of the future. Your condescending attitude belongs in the sand with your buried head.

[bruceb]

Bud Shaw:

"We have to make plays in critical moments," said Jackson. "I think we're equipped to do that. We just didn't do it."

Last week, Jackson said the Browns settled for a field goal just before halftime instead of taking more cracks at the end zone because they were not "equipped."

So...this is what passes for progress?

http://www.cleveland.com/budshaw/index.ssf/2017/12/browns_prove_its_never_too_ear.html#incart_river_index