Former NFL player Phillip Adams found to have severe CTE / Discussion on CTE and the future of the NFL

[WheatieMan]

Just now, Malfatron said:

Dan Morgan

nah, I was thinking Luke Keuchly or whatever the spelling. I remember him crying as he was carted off with another concussion his final or next to last year.

[incognito_man]

3 minutes ago, sammymvpknight said:

Just one more thing that I'll add...and sorry I'm busy so I'm not able to quickly whip out the articles right now. But there was a study on military personnel that found they were at significantly higher of concussion (TBI) than the general population. And VERY few of those concussions occurred while in the line of duty. One of the theories is that those that join the military have a personality type to get a concussion. Essentially, they'd be at a much higher risk of concussion even if they didn't go into the military. They also performed a study on medical providers and burn out and found out that medical providers essentially have insanely high rates of anxiety/obsessive compulsive traits, and they looked at those that were strongly considering medicine and were essentially the same in just about every way you can control for, but they didn't go into medicine. Those individuals also had insanely high levels of anxiety/OC traits. So, there is a theory that medical providers have the personality type to overwork and burn out...even if they didn't go into medicine. 

I was prior military...and I am in the medical field...and I think that there is probably some truth to those theories. I also think that there is probably some truth to the theory that NFL players would have found ways to get concussions even if they weren't in the NFL. It would be just about impossible to prove or disprove.

again though, CTE is not related to concussions. It's the repeated subconcussive hits inherent to the mechanisms of the sport itself. 

I think that's a clear and important distinction, here. That's my only "disagreement" with what you're saying though, and I'm not sure if you're trying to link them or just providing unrelated commentary ha

Edited December 16, 2021 by incognito_man

[Apparition]

2 minutes ago, sammymvpknight said:

I was prior military...and I am in the medical field...and I think that there is probably some truth to those theories. I also think that there is probably some truth to the theory that NFL players would have found ways to get concussions even if they weren't in the NFL. It would be just about impossible to prove or disprove.

I think the bolded part gave ME a concussion. That's like saying kids who eat paint chips are likely to grow up with developmental issues even if we got rid of lead paint, as a pretext for defending the use of lead paint. 

[Matts4313]

3 minutes ago, incognito_man said:

again though, CTE is not related to concussions. It's the repeated subconcussive hits inherent to the mechanisms of the sport itself. 

I think that's a clear and important distinction, here. That's my only "disagreement" with what you're saying though, and I'm not sure if you're trying to link them or just providing unrelated commentary ha

 

5 minutes ago, WheatieMan said:

nah, I was thinking Luke Keuchly or whatever the spelling. I remember him crying as he was carted off with another concussion his final or next to last year.

Read above, concussions arent the issue. 

[Matts4313]

25 minutes ago, WheatieMan said:

The NFL's days are numbered. These are happening to current era players. I mean how much have protocols really evolved in ten years? What if it is Antonio Brown or that retired Carolina LB (can't spell the name) in a few years? This is just... bad. If it doesn't stop, we are going to flag football by 2030.

I dont think this is nearly as big a deal as you are making it. The NFL has survived this behavior for 100 years from those with severe CTE. There is just so few of them, that doesnt make sense. We are talking about *significantly* less than 1% of them go crazy. Theres 1700 players, you are talking about a couple of them over the course of a few years. Do the math. 

 

And on top of that - - we cant even figure out if CTE is the actual reason they went crazy!

6 minutes ago, Apparition said:

I think the bolded part gave ME a concussion. That's like saying kids who eat paint chips are likely to grow up with developmental issues even if we got rid of lead paint, as a pretext for defending the use of lead paint. 

People who have an aptitude for a physical/risky lifestyle with little regard for personal safety might find other lines of work in that field. Thats not a ridiculous thought. I could see a bunch of these guys as MMA fighters. 

Edited December 16, 2021 by Matts4313

[MWil23]

1 minute ago, Matts4313 said:

I dont think this is nearly as big a deal as you are making it. The NFL has survived this behavior for 100 years from those with severe CTE. There is just so few of them, that doesnt make sense. We are talking about much less than 1% of them go crazy. Probably more like .05%.... Theres 1700 players, you are talking about a couple of them over the course of a few years. Do the math. 

People who have an aptitude for a physical/risky lifestyle with little regard for personal safety might find other lines of work in that field. Thats not a ridiculous thought. I could see a bunch of these guys as MMA fighters. 

See:

Chris Benoit, professional wrestler. Such a tragic ending all around there.

[sammymvpknight]

2 minutes ago, incognito_man said:

again though, CTE is not related to concussions. It's the repeated subconcussive hits inherent to the mechanisms of the sport itself. 

I think that's a clear and important distinction, here. That's my only "disagreement" with what you're saying though, and I'm not sure if you're trying to link them or just providing unrelated commentary ha

I'm aware of the believed cause of CTE as a clinical entity. I think that NFL players have personality types that lead them head injuries. I think that they would have sustained head injuries at a much higher rate if they had never stepped on an NFL football field. Would those have equaled to a pathological diagnosis of CTE like those seen on the CTE studies...I have no clue. But it is a concern for determine football as a cause for CTE...how much...I'm not going to speculate...but it's a concern. There are also significant concern of overlap between a number of psychiatric illness symptomatology and the clinical entity of CTE. There have been a number of studies that have come out that suggested that what we thought was unique to the pathology of CTE may not be. Here's one of those studies. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6906593/. Clearly...getting repeatedly in the head is not good for your health. But studying the topic and parsing out causation is really difficult. 

[Apparition]

3 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

Read above, concussions arent the issue. 

This is a bit of a misrepresentation. Concussions BY THEMSELVES might not cause CTE, but concussions just represent a more severe version of the kind of repeated head trauma that does cause it. It's like with other types of trauma - you're not always going to tear a ligament from landing awkwardly on a surface but doing so time after time will put stress on your joints that will be debilitating as you get older.

[sammymvpknight]

8 minutes ago, Apparition said:

I think the bolded part gave ME a concussion. That's like saying kids who eat paint chips are likely to grow up with developmental issues even if we got rid of lead paint, as a pretext for defending the use of lead paint. 

Not quite. But you're going to believe exactly what you want to believe.

[incognito_man]

3 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

The NFL has survived this behavior for 100 years from those with severe CTE. There is just so few of them, that doesnt make sense. We are talking about much less than 1% of them go crazy. Probably more like .05%....

Former professional football players suffer from Alzheimer's disease or other memory-related conditions at rates far higher than the general population, a new study commissioned by the National Football League shows.

And retired players between the ages of 30 and 49 are 19 times more likely to struggle with memory problems than similarly aged men who never played professional football, the study found.

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/Healthday/dementia-risk-higher-nfl-players/story?id=8715784

[incognito_man]

2 minutes ago, sammymvpknight said:

But it is a concern for determine football as a cause for CTE...how much...I'm not going to speculate...but it's a concern.

But we literally know that football increases the risk of developing CTE significantly. 30% increased risk per year played.

[Matts4313]

1 minute ago, incognito_man said:

Former professional football players suffer from Alzheimer's disease or other memory-related conditions at rates far higher than the general population, a new study commissioned by the National Football League shows.

And retired players between the ages of 30 and 49 are 19 times more likely to struggle with memory problems than similarly aged men who never played professional football, the study found.

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/Healthday/dementia-risk-higher-nfl-players/story?id=8715784

Thats why I said "go crazy". I was pretty specific since the dude referenced Mr. Big Chest.

[Matts4313]

1 minute ago, incognito_man said:

But we literally know that football increases the risk of developing CTE significantly. 30% increased risk per year played.

30% of what? 

You keep saying that number with no context. I am going to keep challenging you to tell us what the hell that means. 

[incognito_man]

1 minute ago, Matts4313 said:

30% of what? 

You keep saying that number with no context. I am going to keep challenging you to tell us what the hell that means. 

oh my god

I answered it several time already. Try reading

[Matts4313]

5 minutes ago, incognito_man said:

oh my god

I answered it several time already. Try reading

One more time. Very very clearly. 30% of what? What is the baseline number that increases 30%?

Just the number, I dont need any qualifiers or other words. 

Edited December 16, 2021 by Matts4313