An opportunity to become a dynasty for the next 5 seasons!!!!

[Swampbilly]

14 minutes ago, john305 said:

Our defense is capable of dominating the weak QB's. The second they face middle tier QBs or better not so much. Tampa Bay has a top 10 OL, we've been trying to fix the OL for over a decade. Tampa Bay has really good weapons, we have Waddle and sometimes Gesicki. You can't replicate something if you have nowhere near the same talent. 

 

 

 

A defense doesn't have to "dominate" to be capable.  Our Defense has some issues, but they are good enough that we should be winning more games.  I don't recall Tampa Bay having a great line prior to Tom Brady.  Brady certainly make OLines look better, and so does Aaron Rodgers.  Tampa Bay has great weapons, and I'm suggesting that if we traded for Aaron Rodgers then we would also sign Devante Adams and re-sign Mike Gesicki ........how great would that be?  Better weapons than any other AFC East team IMO.

[john305]

4 minutes ago, Swampbilly said:

A defense doesn't have to "dominate" to be capable.  Our Defense has some issues, but they are good enough that we should be winning more games.  I don't recall Tampa Bay having a great line prior to Tom Brady.  Brady certainly make OLines look better, and so does Aaron Rodgers.  Tampa Bay has great weapons, and I'm suggesting that if we traded for Aaron Rodgers then we would also sign Devante Adams and re-sign Mike Gesicki ........how great would that be?  Better weapons than any other AFC East team IMO.

Tampa's line was ranked 7th in 2019 a year before Brady arrived and then they drafted a pro bowl Tackle in Tristan Wirfs to an already good line. 

[Swampbilly]

5 minutes ago, john305 said:

We just have to emulate success? So we just have to build a SB caliber team? IS that all? It's so easy I'm surprised we didn't think of that back during the Marino years. 

5 picks to find 2 quality starters? Again is that all? It's so easy I'm surprised we haven't done it these last 10 years.

Here's the last 5 picks we used on lineman let me know who the quality starters are.

2-42-Liam Eichenburg

7-231-Larnel Coleman

1-18-Austin Jackson

2-39-Robert Hunt

4-111-Solomon Kindley

Watson and Wilson have had bad lines yes....but have they had the worst OL in the NFL? Did they have what PFF called a historically bad OL? Did they simultaneously have the 2nd worst run game in the NFL?

You don't wanna risk the future of the franchise on a maybe yet your content to keep drafting OL in the hopes that MAYBE we can hit on 2 of 5. Aaron Rodgers would never sign with Miami for the same reason Manning didn't sign here when he was a free agent. Players aren't keen on going to a dumpster fire.

Comparing a Lineman drafted in the 7th round or even 4th round with the potential of drafting a lineman in the 2nd or even the 3rd is a bit skewed IMO.  Austin Jackson hasn't shown anything since he was drafted and that has been 2 seasons worth of football.  He's likely a bust, Solomon Kindley may not work out (he's on the fence right now IMO) but are you suggesting we don't draft Olinemen ever again?  Of course you aren't.

I get what you are saying about Rodgers never ever signing with Miami, and odds are you are probably correct that he won't, but that's where we will have to disagree.  I think that we can make that happen as long as it is what we truly want as an organization and ownership.

[Swampbilly]

26 minutes ago, john305 said:

Tampa's line was ranked 7th in 2019 a year before Brady arrived and then they drafted a pro bowl Tackle in Tristan Wirfs to an already good line. 

TY for reminding me.  Now realizing this I have to point out how they got so good.  They drafted 2 guys in the second round, Ali Marpet and Donovan Smith.  Then they paid Free Agent Center Ryan Jensen a nice chunk of change to come over from the Ravens.  Not much different than what I'm claiming our Front Office can do.

Additionally, you are saying a lot without claiming much at all.  Just to clarify.......  Are you suggesting that we stick with Tua and do our best to build around him?  If so then I don't hate that idea.  It's exactly what I said prior to this season, but now I feel that I have seen enough from Tua to know that we are going to need more than what he provides at the position to win the AFC East.

Edited January 4, 2022 by Swampbilly

[Phinsesq]

1 hour ago, Swampbilly said:

TY for reminding me.  Now realizing this I have to point out how they got so good.  They drafted 2 guys in the second round, Ali Marpet and Donovan Smith.  Then they paid Free Agent Center Ryan Jensen a nice chunk of change to come over from the Ravens.  Not much different than what I'm claiming our Front Office can do.

Additionally, you are saying a lot without claiming much at all.  Just to clarify.......  Are you suggesting that we stick with Tua and do our best to build around him?  If so then I don't hate that idea.  It's exactly what I said prior to this season, but now I feel that I have seen enough from Tua to know that we are going to need more than what he provides at the position to win the AFC East.

Not directed at me but that is where I am at currently.  We absolutely could upgrade the QB position and if the price is right, sure. When it comes to QB's especially those under contract then it is a sellers market and that is what concerns me, eating up both cap and draft capital. 

Tua had an awful game in Tennessee but the  team looked bad as a whole. Absolutely Tua bears some of the responsibility, maybe the majority, but not sole responsibility. I am a firm believer in giving a rookie QB through year 3 or maybe even 4 unless they clearly just don't get it (Haskins). Overall his game has improved this last game was the first real "sophmore slump". He has barely played over a seasons worth of games behind an absolutely horrid O line which was supposed to take the next step this year. 

His accuracy is definitely lacking on mid range throws but he is hitting some decent long balls when he has time to let the play develop. I do think the current scheme or play calling is out of necessity rather than planned identity.  

He plays a good game against New England then he can silence a lot of critics, he plays like he did in Tennessee then it is liable to be a rough and uncertain off season for him. I just want the front office to pick a lane early, either way, and if they are making a change, do it early before training camp as opposed to waiting till the trade deadline.    

Despite all the rumors I think the only starting QB's we realistically see in new locations are Mayfield and Watson and I have my doubts as to them even. 

Edited January 4, 2022 by Phinsesq

[john305]

2 hours ago, Swampbilly said:

Comparing a Lineman drafted in the 7th round or even 4th round with the potential of drafting a lineman in the 2nd or even the 3rd is a bit skewed IMO.  Austin Jackson hasn't shown anything since he was drafted and that has been 2 seasons worth of football.  He's likely a bust, Solomon Kindley may not work out (he's on the fence right now IMO) but are you suggesting we don't draft Olinemen ever again?  Of course you aren't.

I get what you are saying about Rodgers never ever signing with Miami, and odds are you are probably correct that he won't, but that's where we will have to disagree.  I think that we can make that happen as long as it is what we truly want as an organization and ownership.

As long it's what we truly wanted as an organization? So these last 40 years we haven't truly wanted to to get an elite QB and build a SB caliber roster? What did we really want this whole time then? 

 

2 hours ago, Swampbilly said:

TY for reminding me.  Now realizing this I have to point out how they got so good.  They drafted 2 guys in the second round, Ali Marpet and Donovan Smith.  Then they paid Free Agent Center Ryan Jensen a nice chunk of change to come over from the Ravens.  Not much different than what I'm claiming our Front Office can do.

Additionally, you are saying a lot without claiming much at all.  Just to clarify.......  Are you suggesting that we stick with Tua and do our best to build around him?  If so then I don't hate that idea.  It's exactly what I said prior to this season, but now I feel that I have seen enough from Tua to know that we are going to need more than what he provides at the position to win the AFC East.

If the front office could do it they would have been did it. Grier has been in charge of since 2016 and hasn't done it. I don't think it's because he just decided not to but now he will really try. I am suggesting that we will not win consistently with the worst OL in football especially if we pair it with the 2nd worst run game in football. I am suggesting Grier has not been able to draft 5 average starters so why would it happen now all of a sudden. As long as Grier selecting players we will never improve. As long as Flores is our coach we will get more of the same collapses late in the season. The QB is irrelevant if we don't make real changes and that starts with getting rid of the bozo who put this roster together. 

[Swampbilly]

3 hours ago, john305 said:

As long it's what we truly wanted as an organization? So these last 40 years we haven't truly wanted to to get an elite QB and build a SB caliber roster? What did we really want this whole time then? 

 

If the front office could do it they would have been did it. Grier has been in charge of since 2016 and hasn't done it. I don't think it's because he just decided not to but now he will really try. I am suggesting that we will not win consistently with the worst OL in football especially if we pair it with the 2nd worst run game in football. I am suggesting Grier has not been able to draft 5 average starters so why would it happen now all of a sudden. As long as Grier selecting players we will never improve. As long as Flores is our coach we will get more of the same collapses late in the season. The QB is irrelevant if we don't make real changes and that starts with getting rid of the bozo who put this roster together. 

When I say "As long as that's what we wanted as an organization" I'm referring to trading for a proven QB and a specific QB, as opposed until waiting until 2023 and attempting to drafting another rookie QB.  

OK, so I'm talking about apples and you're talking about oranges LOL.  Maybe if you create a thread about getting rid of Grier and Flores and firing Ross (oh wait, nevermind LOL) then we could have a better conversation about that.  Or maybe a thread about how amazing Tua is and how Mac Jones sucks lol.  Fire this guy, fire that guy, burn the world......  I'm not opposed to it, but that's not a solution to anything it's only a beginning to more questions.  Who do you replace them with?  How do YOU propose we specifically fix the franchise?  

Anyways, would you disagree that an elite QB has made more than a few Coaches look great?  Somehow, I doubt you would but that's really another topic.

Edited January 4, 2022 by Swampbilly

[Swampbilly]

4 hours ago, Phinsesq said:

Not directed at me but that is where I am at currently.  We absolutely could upgrade the QB position and if the price is right, sure. When it comes to QB's especially those under contract then it is a sellers market and that is what concerns me, eating up both cap and draft capital. 

Tua had an awful game in Tennessee but the  team looked bad as a whole. Absolutely Tua bears some of the responsibility, maybe the majority, but not sole responsibility. I am a firm believer in giving a rookie QB through year 3 or maybe even 4 unless they clearly just don't get it (Haskins). Overall his game has improved this last game was the first real "sophmore slump". He has barely played over a seasons worth of games behind an absolutely horrid O line which was supposed to take the next step this year. 

His accuracy is definitely lacking on mid range throws but he is hitting some decent long balls when he has time to let the play develop. I do think the current scheme or play calling is out of necessity rather than planned identity.  

He plays a good game against New England then he can silence a lot of critics, he plays like he did in Tennessee then it is liable to be a rough and uncertain off season for him. I just want the front office to pick a lane early, either way, and if they are making a change, do it early before training camp as opposed to waiting till the trade deadline.    

Despite all the rumors I think the only starting QB's we realistically see in new locations are Mayfield and Watson and I have my doubts as to them even. 

We certainly looked bad as a whole, but elite QB's make everything look better.  I agree that Tua does not deserve to bear the full responsibility of that defeat in Nashville.  I do think we can win football games and have a winning season or two with Tua as the starter.  I don't think our coaching staff is capable of developing QB's into pro bowl caliber players and I think that is the type of QB we will need to consistently win the AFC East.  That is indeed why I propose we trade for one.

I get that our OLine is bad and I don't think anyone would deny that, but there are QB specific things that have nothing to do with the OLine that Tua is failing at.  That is the reason I feel that I have seen enough from Tua to feel like he will not be able to provide what we will need from the QB position to win the division.

[FinSting]

Tua looked awful vs Tennessee, there's no way to avoid that truth. I'm just not ready to throw in the terrible Tua towel yet tho. Let's do Year 3, with a revamped o-line, and see how it all plays out. 

Besides, Gardner Minshew is always available via trade. 

 

[Swampbilly]

1 hour ago, FinSting said:

Tua looked awful vs Tennessee, there's no way to avoid that truth. I'm just not ready to throw in the terrible Tua towel yet tho. Let's do Year 3, with a revamped o-line, and see how it all plays out. 

Besides, Gardner Minshew is always available via trade. 

 

I think the most likely course is that we will go into the 2022 season with Tua as our starter.  Although I truly believe our draft picks are better served being used as trade capitol than building around Tua.  I feel like the whole reason we have 2 first round picks in 2023 is so we have the capitol to move up in 2023 to get a QB should Tua not develop enough, and I don't mean this as a nock on Tua but I just don't have faith that our coaching staff can develop a young QB.  That's why I feel our best chance to get the type of QB we need is through a trade.  And, if we are going to trade for a veteran QB then let's do it while we have a ton of Cap.

Additionally, I think the best thing for Tua is to play for an Offensive guru like Sean Payton in New Orleans.  If we were to land a big time veteran QB then I would love to see Tua thrive in New Orleans.

Edited January 5, 2022 by Swampbilly

[FinSting]

2 hours ago, Swampbilly said:

I think the most likely course is that we will go into the 2022 season with Tua as our starter.  Although I truly believe our draft picks are better served being used as trade capitol than building around Tua. 

You too have no faith in Grier to draft competent o-linemen? Lol. Trade for talent, this drafting thing just isn't working. 

[Swampbilly]

1 hour ago, FinSting said:

You too have no faith in Grier to draft competent o-linemen? Lol. Trade for talent, this drafting thing just isn't working. 

Despite his failure to build a competent OLine so far, I do think Grier can draft competent OLinemen.  I think Hunt is an average RG right now, and I think Eich was an average LG early in the season (although it was a small sample size).  I think Grier drastically misread the Tackle market last draft and I think his insistence to draft an Edge Rusher (albeit a promising prospect) at 18 followed by a safety early in round 2 (another promising prospect) was a misallocation of draft capitol that now has to be made up in the Free Agent Market.  That being said I also think Grier has built contracts so that he can fall back on Free Agency this Off Season as a contingency, so kudos to him for that.

Where I am certainly lacking faith is that our coaching staff can scheme and develop OLine talent as well as QB talent.

[Swampbilly]

Analyzing Tua Tagovailoa's role in Miami Dolphins' struggles | Pro Football Talk | NBC Sports - YouTube

Interesting take from Mike Florio on Tua and Ross and the state of the franchise as it pertains to QB's.  Most interesting part is around 3:35 where he brings up Russell Wilson in Miami, and guess who else?  That's right!!!!!  A-Rod!!!!!  

Again, it's not just me saying it anymore.  A-Rod as a Fin is a legit possibility.  It's realistic and could happen.

I'm going to up the ante in this conversation.  I predict Tua WILL NOT be our starting QB in the fall of 2022.  I'm willing to take a sig bet on that.

edit:  And another one mentioning A-Rod as a possibility (along with Wilson and Watson)

Tua Tagovailoa Replacements: Top QBs The Miami Dolphins Could Either Trade, Sign Or Draft In 2022 - YouTube

Edited January 5, 2022 by Swampbilly

[TheKillerNacho]

Tua should be our starter next season. Pretty sure he will be.

[Swampbilly]

23 hours ago, TheKillerNacho said:

Tua should be our starter next season. Pretty sure he will be.

I'm not sure he will be.  I think he is the most likely QB to be our starter in the 2022 season, but I think Deshaun Watson is almost as likely to be our starter as Tua is, and I would give an outside chance of Rodgers or Wilson being our starter.

We are clearly interested in trading for Watson.  It is being reported that Watson had a settlement agreement with 18 of his 22 accusers right before the trade deadline and that if he could have gotten a settlement worked out with the other 4 then we would have sent Houston 3 first round picks plus for Watson.

The magic number is 4.  4 accusers needed to settle, and it was done.  I haven't seen anything to make me think that is no longer the case.  

The Latest Potential Deshaun Watson Trade Scenarios - Battle Red Blog

Just to rehash, Watson clearly wants to be a Dolphin as well.  He previously refused to settle with any accusers claiming he is 100% innocent, but once Ross stated that he wouldn't trade unless Watson settled with all 22 accusers Watson and his lawyer immediately began negotiations to settle.  Additionally, it's my understanding we are the only team Watson has agreed to forego his No Trade clause for.

Put it all together and I wouldn't be buying a Tua Dolphins Jersey anytime soon.

Edited January 9, 2022 by Swampbilly