Talent Acquisition and Separation

[Chiefer]

10 minutes ago, RedGold said:

tbh when I watched Georgia.  I thought Jalen Carter was their best DL  and that's what scares me about the other 2 DT's  haha.

 

He looks great too, probably a future top 10 draft pick. He did benefit greatly as a sub rusher in a rotation, im interested to see how he does taking on more snaps next year

[kingseanjohn]

10 minutes ago, Chiefer said:

Its a DT so looking at stat lines is a little silly lol

Than by that standard, Chris Jones or Jeffrey Simmons arent worth a 1st round pick. They had nearly identical stats their final years of college

Jones vs Wyatt in their college careers; Jones played in 4 fewer games, had 11 fewer tackles, 6 more TFL, 3.5 more sacks, and 7 more PDs. The biggest thing is that he had no real help. Wyatt did. The ONLY other player on the DL from that Mississippi State team still in the NFL is 2019 KC Chiefs Super Bowl Champion and current Saints 7th string DT, Braxton Hoyett.

[Chiefer]

20 minutes ago, kingseanjohn said:

Jones vs Wyatt in their college careers; Jones played in 4 fewer games, had 11 fewer tackles, 6 more TFL, 3.5 more sacks, and 7 more PDs. The biggest thing is that he had no real help. Wyatt did. The ONLY other player on the DL from that Mississippi State team still in the NFL is 2019 KC Chiefs Super Bowl Champion and current Saints 7th string DT, Braxton Hoyett.

ohh i went by final year, misinterpretation. Career is still a sketchy way of grading things. Jones was on a worse team, so he got earlier opportunities to start and make plays. Jones is fighting for starting on that Georgia team too lol.He also didnt have a Corona year to deal with and throw a wrench into development. 

I get the concerns, but maybe the Chiefs seem to agree with me. Theyre the ones bringing him in for a visit, must like something about him. Hes a perfect fit for Nnadi/Reeds position in the Defense, but can take advantage of single blocks better than either imo.  Certainly has elite upside.

 

Edited April 7, 2022 by Chiefer

[EMAW_KSU]

Here’s the thing, there’sa ton of can’t miss guys that never pan out too.  You run the risk of flop regardless of school, regardless of combine numbers.

The goal is that Wyatt would again be surrounded by talent, being nex to Jones, Clark and hopefully another difference maker.  I don’t understand the mantra of not drafting a player from a good team because there was talented people around them, is t that the goal? To have a talented team?  Like not drafting Thibbedeaux because Odjabo lined up on the other side?

[kingseanjohn]

9 minutes ago, EMAW_KSU said:

 I don’t understand the mantra of not drafting a player from a good team because there was talented people around them, is t that the goal?

My concern is knowing whether we're getting the elite talent or the guy who just benefited from someone else. Jones and Clark are both effectively entering the last year of their deals. No way we keep them both at their current cap 2023 cap hits of 27mil and 30mil respectively. Kaindoh, Danna, and Herring are the only other DL under contract in 2023. So whomever we draft may have some of that elite talent around them this year, but this year alone unless we can get that Peppers guy and not a Sims.

Quote

When comparing Sims' pro football path to Peppers', many in hindsight have stated that Sims was more of a product of Peppers' dominance than the product of a situation where the two complimented each other.

"Scouts fell into the classic trap of overvaluing a player who played on the same line as an established elite talent," wrote Football Outsiders' Sean McCormick in 2008. "Offenses were busy worrying about Julius Peppers, and it made Sims look better on tape than he really was."

Source Article

That's my worry.

[EMAW_KSU]

22 minutes ago, kingseanjohn said:

So whomever we draft may have some of that elite talent around them this year, but this year alone unless we can get that Peppers guy and not a Sims.

But you have risk regardless of who you draft.  Someone said they’d rather have Davis, that doesn’t make him there.  It all depends on what’s available.  Either way adding talent to the Dline is what’s necessary.

[RedGold]

It’s not so much don’t draft them because of the talent beside them.   To me,  Travis Jones and Winfrey looked just as good as the sole person offensive lines focused on.   Yeah the goal is to surround everyone with talent,  but it’s more about the fact those two looked just as good with not as much talent around them.. so what happens when you put those 2 (and to a lesser extent Matthew Butler) around another player that is talented.  

[onejayhawk]

3 hours ago, kingseanjohn said:

My concern is knowing whether we're getting the elite talent or the guy who just benefited from someone else. Jones and Clark are both effectively entering the last year of their deals. No way we keep them both at their current cap 2023 cap hits of 27mil and 30mil respectively. Kaindoh, Danna, and Herring are the only other DL under contract in 2023. So whomever we draft may have some of that elite talent around them this year, but this year alone unless we can get that Peppers guy and not a Sims.

That's my worry.

It's a real problem, one that has been common to Alabama linemen on both sides of the ball.

However, there are exceptions. Back in the day it was said about Nebraska's OL talent. Yet, Will Shields was a Cornhusker. 

[EMAW_KSU]

21 minutes ago, onejayhawk said:

It's a real problem, one that has been common to Alabama linemen on both sides of the ball.

However, there are exceptions. Back in the day it was said about Nebraska's OL talent. Yet, Will Shields was a Cornhusker. 

My point exactly, it’sa crap shoot.  I’d rather take a guy who played well against top talent every week, then a guy who also looked good, but against inferior talent.  This is the issue I have with a guy like Skyy Moore being projected in the first by some folks.  I would have expected him to dominate his competition, but that wasn’t the case even when watching “highlight” films.

I don’t necessarily want to trade up for a guy like Wyatt because I do think there’s other DT guys that could come in and be very good.  But I’m certainly not going to complain if we draft him, and if he’s there at 50 (like my last mock) which I expect there to be somewhere less than zero chance, I’d be downright giddy.

Edited April 8, 2022 by EMAW_KSU
Clarification

[Chiefer]

4 hours ago, EMAW_KSU said:

Here’s the thing, there’sa ton of can’t miss guys that never pan out too.  You run the risk of flop regardless of school, regardless of combine numbers.

The goal is that Wyatt would again be surrounded by talent, being nex to Jones, Clark and hopefully another difference maker.  I don’t understand the mantra of not drafting a player from a good team because there was talented people around them, is t that the goal? To have a talented team?  Like not drafting Thibbedeaux because Odjabo lined up on the other side?

Shouldnt take Ojabo because of Hutch, Jameson had help with Metchie, etc etc

Look the guy can take on Double Teams with ease, which despite being on a talented team he did regularly, freeing up his LBs and blitzers, and does well when single blocked pushing into the QBs lap. Hes way more athletic than Sims, so at least he shows some work ethic there which is all im really looking for from the big boys lol.

 

 

[onejayhawk]

20 minutes ago, Chiefer said:

Shouldnt take Ojabo because of Hutch, Jameson had help with Metchie, etc etc

Look the guy can take on Double Teams with ease, which despite being on a talented team he did regularly, freeing up his LBs and blitzers, and does well when single blocked pushing into the QBs lap. Hes way more athletic than Sims, so at least he shows some work ethic there which is all im really looking for from the big boys lol.

Shouldn't take Ojabo and Jameson because they are hurt, at least not without a steep discount. 

The point is well made that players on elite units tend to be overvalued. That applies to at least five Georgia defensive players in this draft class. I'm sold on Davis but not on Dean, Wyatt, and both Walkers at their current levels. 

[Chiefer]

14 minutes ago, onejayhawk said:

Shouldn't take Ojabo and Jameson because they are hurt, at least not without a steep discount. 

The point is well made that players on elite units tend to be overvalued. That applies to at least five Georgia defensive players in this draft class. I'm sold on Davis but not on Dean, Wyatt, and both Walkers at their current levels. 

Davis had a horrible snap percentage though, serious concerns for him about handling a larger NFL workload and his pass rush capabilities. 

Not to say im not a fan, i am. But, Hell struggle the first season and should get better with more time. His upside is massive, him Next to Jones could just terrorize OLs I honestly think hes gone in the top 15, not a realistic option for us.

Edited April 8, 2022 by Chiefer

[Chiefer]

I will say speaking of Georgians, i really like Lewis Cine, but they ran a split safety look almost exclusively with him. Dont know how well he fits with Spagz blitz heavy scheme, but that experience would be nice against the Josh Allens of the world.

[Chiefs_5627]

Saw this and thought it was interesting, he's (Pickens) getting to be my favorite WR prospect that we can grab without the big trades: 

 

 

[EMAW_KSU]

I will say this about Watson, I don’t know that all of his drops aren on him. His QB play last year was atrocious.  But again, this is why these guys get coached.

 Pickens to me is the guy you know exactly what you’re getting.  Not really any upside, maybe not much downside.