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Who decided that DVOA matters?


DontTazeMeBro

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1 minute ago, SkippyX said:

No, you do that. I already know it to be true through observation and review.

I don't care if others pretend its not reality. I just bring it up every time a fly gets off a big pile in Jerrah World and buzzes by my face on random threads.

There is no human (myself included) who knows anything reliably over the long haul "through observation and review."  This is why statistics exist -- because humans can't perform that number and complexity of mental/numerical operations.  If you insist you can, we can immediately discount your perspective.

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4 minutes ago, The Guy said:

There is no human (myself included) who knows anything reliably over the long haul "through observation and review."  This is why statistics exist -- because humans can't perform that number and complexity of mental/numerical operations.  If you insist you can, we can immediately discount your perspective.

Sorry, you can look at 89 starts from a player and see how he thrives behind a steamroller 120+ or 140+ rushing offense and falls apart when they don't dominate on the ground. Its right there on pro football reference and I've watched probably 40% of those games and seen highlights for almost all of them.

You owe nothing to Matts so don't become his disciple on this. Its not your fight. Its pathetic that he's still coming at me over it.

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Just now, DontTazeMeBro said:

It also has Dallas #1. And I overrated Dallas too so if you want to look past that. Seattle at #7.

It doesn't tell the whole story obviously and Dallas DVOA was propped up the same way the Patriots was by beating several terrible teams but for the Packers and Titans it was a good indicator. The Packers played too many close games to be a reliable SB favorite.

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11 minutes ago, SkippyX said:

Sorry, you can look at 89 starts from a player and see how he thrives behind a steamroller 120+ or 140+ rushing offense and falls apart when they don't dominate on the ground. Its right there on pro football reference and I've watched probably 40% of those games and seen highlights for almost all of them.

You owe nothing to Matts so don't become his disciple on this. Its not your fight. Its pathetic that he's still coming at me over it.

The correlation between Dallas's passer rating and their number of rushing yards, game-by-game between 2016 and 2021 (including the playoffs), is 0.33.

So, 11% of the variance in Prescott's passer rating is explained by Dallas's number of rushing yards.  89% of the variance in his passer rating is unexplained by it.

Here are the data:

Rate Yds
140.9 108
151.6 171
149.2 164
120.2 51
158.3 89
138 223
112.9 85
130.3 245
117.4 191
140.3 168
127.2 118
103.2 138
93.8 189
105.2 163
128 265
137.1 122
104.9 142
123.5 213
101.7 172
99.3 50
116.6 75
93.6 61
104 180
134.7 151
101.4 60
143.3 160
118.7 201
108.7 122
108.6 45
114.7 194
77.8 187
121.7 127
68.6 40
141.7 99
106.8 131
93.4 182
118.6 183
107.5 206
96.2 72
121.6 146
91.4 235
83.8 122
91.8 103
123.8 263
85.9 111
122.6 101
97.8 87
95.6 78
73.9 78
123.5 114
106.2 64
123.6 199
117.9 180
108.9 163
108.3 140
45.4 108
52.5 69
90.5 129
85.3 129
95.4 138
54.5 166
66.5 98
96.5 73
102.8 171
115.6 99
106.8 80
83.6 164
99.2 50
100.5 189
83.2 82
92.5 136
105 125
96.5 126
65.8 97
72.6 144
84.8 60
79 146
58.8 122
98.6 125
71.2 77
69.4 101
103.7 102
99 185
82.2 169
82.1 107
28.8 112
60.6 79
59.5 126
51.2 128
81.1 94
86.5 132
64.7 112
73.2 45
89.4 129
64.2 109
74.5 54
46.4 83
64.6 133
66.3 108
87.8 198
57.9 82
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3 minutes ago, The Guy said:

 

The correlation between Dallas's passer rating and their number of rushing yards, game-by-game between 2016 and 2021 (including the playoffs), is 0.33.

So, 11% of the variance in Prescott's passer rating is explained by Dallas's number of rushing yards.  89% of the variance in his passer rating is unexplained by it.

Here are the data:

Rate Yds
140.9 108
151.6 171
149.2 164
120.2 51
158.3 89
138 223
112.9 85
130.3 245
117.4 191
140.3 168
127.2 118
103.2 138
93.8 189
105.2 163
128 265
137.1 122
104.9 142
123.5 213
101.7 172
99.3 50
116.6 75
93.6 61
104 180
134.7 151
101.4 60
143.3 160
118.7 201
108.7 122
108.6 45
114.7 194
77.8 187
121.7 127
68.6 40
141.7 99
106.8 131
93.4 182
118.6 183
107.5 206
96.2 72
121.6 146
91.4 235
83.8 122
91.8 103
123.8 263
85.9 111
122.6 101
97.8 87
95.6 78
73.9 78
123.5 114
106.2 64
123.6 199
117.9 180
108.9 163
108.3 140
45.4 108
52.5 69
90.5 129
85.3 129
95.4 138
54.5 166
66.5 98
96.5 73
102.8 171
115.6 99
106.8 80
83.6 164
99.2 50
100.5 189
83.2 82
92.5 136
105 125
96.5 126
65.8 97
72.6 144
84.8 60
79 146
58.8 122
98.6 125
71.2 77
69.4 101
103.7 102
99 185
82.2 169
82.1 107
28.8 112
60.6 79
59.5 126
51.2 128
81.1 94
86.5 132
64.7 112
73.2 45
89.4 129
64.2 109
74.5 54
46.4 83
64.6 133
66.3 108
87.8 198
57.9 82

If we remove the games Prescott didn't play due to injury in 2020, the correlation changes to 0.32.  No difference.

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18 minutes ago, DontTazeMeBro said:

It also has Dallas #1. And I overrated Dallas too so if you want to look past that. Seattle at #7.

I'm pretty sure the 49ers were #1 in weighted DVOA tho (or at least above Dallas). Obvi the Boys played better over the course of the year but I think the 49ers were playing better at the end of the szn. 

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The 2016 Cowboys were 10-0 when running for 140+ and 3-4 when not.

The 2017 Cowboys were 3-2 when running for 140+ and 6-5 when not.

The 2018 Cowboys were 6-1 when running for 140+ and 4-6 when not.

The 2019 Cowboys were 6-0 when running for 140+ and 2-8 when not.

The 2020 Cowboys did not run for 140+ in Dak's 5 starts. They were 2-3

The 2021 Cowboys were 5-0 with Dak when running for 140+. They were 5-5 when not.

* Cooper Rush was 1-0 when the Cowboys only ran for 78.

 

I see 28-3 with 140+ on the ground and 22-31 when not.

 

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1 minute ago, SkippyX said:

The 2016 Cowboys were 10-0 when running for 140+ and 3-4 when not.

The 2017 Cowboys were 3-2 when running for 140+ and 6-5 when not.

The 2018 Cowboys were 6-1 when running for 140+ and 4-6 when not.

The 2019 Cowboys were 6-0 when running for 140+ and 2-8 when not.

The 2020 Cowboys did not run for 140+ in Dak's 5 starts. They were 2-3

The 2021 Cowboys were 5-0 with Dak when running for 140+. They were 5-5 when not.

* Cooper Rush was 1-0 when the Cowboys only ran for 78.

 

I see 28-3 with 140+ on the ground and 22-31 when not.

 

Now you're talking about the relationship between the Cowboys' rushing yardage and winning, and not the relationship between their rushing yardage and Prescott's performance.

Again, any assessment of the relationship between run game variables and winning has to control for late-game, ball-control, clock-killing running, as that's a confound with winning.  You can't argue that running the ball causes winning if in fact winning causes running the ball.  If you've already won the game with other variables and are using the run game to control the ball and run out the clock late in the game, the run game hardly caused the win.  Rather the run game was an effect of the win.

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Just now, SkippyX said:

Dak is 23-14 when he throws for 250+

Zeke is 26-4 when he runs for 100 yards.

 

I'm not interested in the 3rd level nuances of Dak's passer rating. I am just pointing out that the Cowboys running game is how they win football games.

 

 

 

Control for late-game clock-killing rushing yardage and see what you come up with, and use passing efficiency instead of an arbitrary cutoff of 250+ passing yards.  A QB can pass for 250+ yards with 20 attempts or with 50 attempts -- he's a whole lot more efficient with 20 attempts.

The league wins with passing efficiency and pass defense.  If you're trying to say a team runs counter to that you have to control for confounding variables.

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