Baker Mayfield vs Lamar Jackson - Who is a better fit?

[LinderFournette]

5 minutes ago, .Buzz said:

Would be all for it.

Think you need to cut the random mock drafts things you do though, because there is no way he is falling to our 2nd round pick and you continuously get him in round 3 in those. Think those are beyond pointless at this time of the season too.

Hes a Day 2 QB per Matt Miller, Mel Kiper, Todd McShay at this point. i know all it takes is 1 team to fall in love with a guy but traditionally teams dont like take shorter qbs who play in gimmick offenses in round 1.  the last 1 was Manziel and im pretty sure everyone laughed at the choice at that time. 

[.Buzz]

6 minutes ago, LinderFournette said:

Hes a Day 2 QB per Matt Miller, Mel Kiper, Todd McShay at this point. i know all it takes is 1 team to fall in love with a guy but traditionally teams dont like take shorter qbs who play in gimmick offenses in round 1.  the last 1 was Manziel and im pretty sure everyone laughed at the choice at that time. 

He's not going to be a day 2 pick unless he bombs during draft process.

 

[KhanYouDigIt]

I personally want Lamar for the playmaker that he is but if we get to see the Baker/Dede connection yet again,  I am in. I would be ok trading up for either one.

[.Buzz]

1 minute ago, KhanYouDigIt said:

I personally want Lamar for the playmaker that he is but if we get to see the Baker/Dede connection yet again,  I am in. I would be ok trading up for either one.

Depending where we pick I'm not sure if we'll need to or not.

If we like one of them and they are going ahead of us, I hope we throw the kitchen sink to get it done for either one though. Yes, we do have other needs, but we need to get something set long-term at QB. I don't want to trot out below average QB play with this defense again. We can't waste this defense. 

[.Buzz]

 

[LinderFournette]

1 hour ago, .Buzz said:

He's not going to be a day 2 pick unless he bombs during draft process.

 

u know some teams will be turned off by his "character"

[.Buzz]

Just now, LinderFournette said:

u know some teams will be turned off by his "character"

What? Who?

If there is, those GM's are straight stupid. There's nothing wrong with Baker. The guy is a competitor on the field and a guy that will go to war for his guys. As long as it isn't detrimental to the team/that isn't carrying to the off the field game than I really don't agree. Maybe a few teams would be, but I really don't think Marrone/TC would have any trouble with the way Baker carries himself.

[LinderFournette]

Just now, .Buzz said:

What? Who?

If there is, those GM's are straight stupid. There's nothing wrong with Baker. The guy is a competitor on the field and a guy that will go to war for his guys. As long as it isn't detrimental to the team/that isn't carrying to the off the field game than I really don't agree. Maybe a few teams would be, but I really don't think Marrone/TC would have any trouble with the way Baker carries himself.

http://www.rotoworld.com/headlines/cfb/75879/qb-mayfield-torches-ku-following-pregame-snub?ls=roto:OK:topheadlines

Quote

 He was demonstrative throughout, not forgetting the snub, grabbing his crotch while cursing the Kansas bench. At one point, he turned to Kansas fans behind OU's bench and screamed: "You have one win! Go cheer on basketball!"

im sure some teams will not appreciate those kind of actions.  hes already "apologized" on twitter for it but honestly i dont care what he does. 

[.Buzz]

Just now, LinderFournette said:

http://www.rotoworld.com/headlines/cfb/75879/qb-mayfield-torches-ku-following-pregame-snub?ls=roto:OK:topheadlines

im sure some teams will not appreciate those kind of actions.  hes already "apologized" on twitter for it but honestly i dont care what he does. 

Maybe a couple teams will, sure, but I think the overwhelming majority won't.

It's football, there's trash talk. He's a competitor.

A-OK for me.

[Tugboat]

5 hours ago, .Buzz said:

He's not going to be a day 2 pick unless he bombs during draft process.

 

I don't think it'd be outrageous or super surprising if he ended up a day 2 pick.  That's probably about where he should go.  Obviously QBs have a tendency to get pushed up boards though, and teams will absolutely jump up for someone they love.  Also comes with that extra year option that can encourage a team to move up from early Day 2, to grab them at the end of Day 1.  But it really wouldn't surprise me either way at this stage.

[Tugboat]

3 hours ago, .Buzz said:

What? Who?

If there is, those GM's are straight stupid. There's nothing wrong with Baker. The guy is a competitor on the field and a guy that will go to war for his guys. As long as it isn't detrimental to the team/that isn't carrying to the off the field game than I really don't agree. Maybe a few teams would be, but I really don't think Marrone/TC would have any trouble with the way Baker carries himself.

Eh...i don't think it's the sort of thing that's gonna scare off a team if they're really confident he can become a franchise QB for them.  But it does factor in on some level.  This isn't just any player, this is a quarterback and you're hoping he's going to be the "face of your franchise" for a lot of years.  This isn't the first incident though.  He's had a few of these lapses in judgment in the heat of the moment on and off the field.

Nothing wrong with the competitive fire.  But it's not ideal for your franchise (and your advertising partners and all that boring business crap) to have the "face of the franchise" potentially giving the ol' crotch grab or something on a national TV primetime football game or something.  "Come parents, bring your kids down to see the Jaguars led by fiery competitive crotch grabbing flag planting arrest resisting role model phenom Baker Mayfield on Sunday!  And get a free complimentary apology letter on Monday!"

 

I mean...if he's gonna win you games, you mostly just shrug it off and hope he doesn't do anything too egregious or embarrassing.  But the NFL is more than just a football league...it's big business.  Which means there are other considerations that will creep in.  However much around the fringes they are.

 

I mean personally, i don't care.  I thought it was hilarious.  But i can still see how it might not be exactly the way you'd want to project your team's "brand" out into the spotlight.

[Adrenaline_Flux]

If teams think Baker Mayfield will be good, they won't care. There are other QBs who do and say similar things. We just played the biggest trash talking QB, even.

[.Buzz]

6 hours ago, Adrenaline_Flux said:

If teams think Baker Mayfield will be good, they won't care. There are other QBs who do and say similar things. We just played the biggest trash talking QB, even.

This.

Seriously, if this is a QB you like and think he could be a franchise guy, things that happened yesterday will have no impact.

If you are a team that isnt in need of a QB/want choir boys (Gene Smith says hello), than yeah, maybe Baker isnt for you.

As you pointed out, Rivers is one of the biggest. 

Kansas players refused to shake his hand at mid field and likely proceeded to talk on the field. Nothing wrong with Baker firing back unless its affecting his play/team, which it wasnt.

[Tugboat]

I just think it's incredibly naive to look at the insane microscope these players (QBs especially) are subjected to through the pre-draft process...and think that a gesture like that isn't going to at least come up.  I mean, they're going to measure these guys from head to toe, sit them down and ask idiotic questions like, "would you be a cat or a dog?", and send out "undercover private investigator scouts" to feel around the local party scene to check up on these guys.  Surely some of the things Mayfield has done (not limited to the crotch grab) are going to come up at least as a point of discussion in most draft rooms.  That can make a difference, more so for some teams than others obviously, but even if a team is fine with the potential face of their franchise displaying some tendencies toward getting a bit carried away in the heat of the moment...it's going to at least come up in the evaluation process.

It's a lot easier to say it's absolutely irrelevant when it's not your livelihood, reputation and franchise "Brand" riding on the guy.

[.Buzz]

3 minutes ago, Tugboat said:

I just think it's incredibly naive to look at the insane microscope these players (QBs especially) are subjected to through the pre-draft process...and think that a gesture like that isn't going to at least come up.  I mean, they're going to measure these guys from head to toe, sit them down and ask idiotic questions like, "would you be a cat or a dog?", and send out "undercover private investigator scouts" to feel around the local party scene to check up on these guys.  Surely some of the things Mayfield has done (not limited to the crotch grab) are going to come up at least as a point of discussion in most draft rooms.  That can make a difference, more so for some teams than others obviously, but even if a team is fine with the potential face of their franchise displaying some tendencies toward getting a bit carried away in the heat of the moment...it's going to at least come up in the evaluation process.

It's a lot easier to say it's absolutely irrelevant when it's not your livelihood, reputation and franchise "Brand" riding on the guy.

No one is saying that these things that he does won't get discussed or brought up during the interview process. As far as being a legit factor in the decision process? I highly, highly doubt it.

The guy is the definition of a competitor. He is beloved by his teammates and is a hard worker. As long as he is a guy that does that on the field and only on the field and knows that he can't hurt the team by his antics, why would most FO's?

If you think the guy is a talent and his play can be that of a franchise QB, I don't see why anything you are bringing up would have any impact. If you are skeptical about his traits/not sure if he can be "the guy", than sure, things he's done consistently may worry you. Even then, I don't think it's detrimental to his draft stock. In fact, a lot of people love guys like Baker who are just all about football and showing that much emotion.