Dirk Koetter sticking around for 2018, Mike Smith and all assistant coaches too

[xlfrosti]

On ‎11‎/‎18‎/‎2017 at 10:56 PM, Lil' Shorty said:

If we have a top pick with tons of QBs coming out in the draft, I still think Gruden would want to come back. Not saying I prefer him, but I think he'd still want to come back. We have TONS of offensive talent, but need to sure up the lines. Draft say, Lamar Jackson, someone who Gruden could continue to develop as a pocket passer, and man the offense could really be unstoppable. If Jameis is shipped out and we had the chance, with the improved passing of Lamar, id be tempted. I don't think he's Vick 2.0 in the passing department. Why wouldn't Gruden wan to work with him and our offense?

Another question while on the talk of Jon Gruden. Looking back at the years that he was head coach from 2002-2008 the drafts that he did he only drafted 3 QB's in those years and they were

QB Chris Simms 3rd Round - QB Bruce Gradkowski 6th Round - QB Josh Johnson 5th round 

That's all the QB's that he drafted in the 7 years he was head coach for us. What do you guys think about this. He trades Winston get as much draft picks or assets as we can. You at a look at the QB in the FA next year. 

Sam Bradford - QB

Drew Brees - QB

Kirk Cousins - QB

Now out of these QBs the only 1 I see would be Kirk Cousins, granted I don't think this could happen, but like I said you look at the draft history of Gruden it doesn't seem like he draft much QB or any at all.

Forgot to add this. If we do go after, lets say Kirk. He'll want a that long term contract and after looking at the contracts that have been given out I think he'll get in the range of what Stafford got. Really don't know if it is worth giving that money out unless we release some players.

[bucsfan333]

A good read/breakdown on Licht's tenure here.

[Lil' Shorty]

On 11/22/2017 at 10:45 AM, xlfrosti said:

So let's say this happens and they want to trade Winston. Now how much would we ask in return for trading him?

BTW if we do bring in Gruden and a new GM then who would go to the OC and DC side. That's another question to answer also.

I'd say pull the trigger if we can get one or two premium picks and are in position to draft our future franchise QB. In this draft id personally prefer Lamar Jackson. He's really raw as a passer but has shown improvement this year and if he ever completely figures out how to pass at the NFL level (the $100MM question for all rookie QBs) the dude will be unstoppable. Anyway, that's hear nor there. One 1st, 2 2nds, maybe a 1st and 3rd. Idk what Jameis' value would be if he's coming off or currently in another sexual assault investigation, but a QB needy team like the Browns who is loaded with picks will probably pay up.

I don't want Gruden. It's fun flirting with the idea but I just don't see that ending well. Love me some Chucky but we shouldn't go back down that road.

[Lil' Shorty]

On 11/22/2017 at 11:06 AM, xlfrosti said:

Another question while on the talk of Jon Gruden. Looking back at the years that he was head coach from 2002-2008 the drafts that he did he only drafted 3 QB's in those years and they were

QB Chris Simms 3rd Round - QB Bruce Gradkowski 6th Round - QB Josh Johnson 5th round 

That's all the QB's that he drafted in the 7 years he was head coach for us. What do you guys think about this. He trades Winston get as much draft picks or assets as we can. You at a look at the QB in the FA next year. 

Sam Bradford - QB

Drew Brees - QB

Kirk Cousins - QB

Now out of these QBs the only 1 I see would be Kirk Cousins, granted I don't think this could happen, but like I said you look at the draft history of Gruden it doesn't seem like he draft much QB or any at all.

Forgot to add this. If we do go after, lets say Kirk. He'll want a that long term contract and after looking at the contracts that have been given out I think he'll get in the range of what Stafford got. Really don't know if it is worth giving that money out unless we release some players.

This is another reason why I don't want to go after Gruden. Not only would the structure of the organization be backwards, coach before GM and GM not fully able to do his job, but the biz model of re tread vet QBs I don't think works in today's NFL. Peyton Manning was an annomoly in Denver because of that defense, plus its Peyton Manning.

[REDandPEWTER]

Winston's trade value is down right now. Say he gets suspended for 6 games , he's then one strike away from an NFL life time ban as they are taking these measures seriously. 

I don't think gruden is the right man for the job with getting a young qb especially a project like Jackson. 

[bucsfan333]

I'm not sold on Lamar Jackson at all. One read and run is all he does. He can whip it and run around like Michael Vick, no doubt. But his footwork is a mess and I honestly don't know if he can even go through his progressions.

I think he's more Vince Young than anyone.

[REDandPEWTER]

3 hours ago, bucsfan333 said:

I'm not sold on Lamar Jackson at all. One read and run is all he does. He can whip it and run around like Michael Vick, no doubt. But his footwork is a mess and I honestly don't know if he can even go through his progressions.

I think he's more Vince Young than anyone.

I agree. No doubt he has a ton of talent but he would be a guy I'd take if I'm say, the pats, saints or steeler for example or Giants. Take him in round two and let him sit two years. He's raw and needs time to develop. 

Im not writing him off Bc I don't know his mental make up (Vince young wasn't mentally tough) , but he's a guy who isn't ready to play year 1 or maybe 2. 

[Lil' Shorty]

20 hours ago, REDandPEWTER said:

I agree. No doubt he has a ton of talent but he would be a guy I'd take if I'm say, the pats, saints or steeler for example or Giants. Take him in round two and let him sit two years. He's raw and needs time to develop. 

Im not writing him off Bc I don't know his mental make up (Vince young wasn't mentally tough) , but he's a guy who isn't ready to play year 1 or maybe 2. 

Lamar will be a top 15, maybe top 10 pick. Sure he may need to sit a few games but no way he lasts to the 2nd or sits a full season. If scouts evaluate the mental aspect of his game through tape and interviews and are impressed, he could be the first QB taken and a day 1 starter. I wouldn't be surprised.

[Lil' Shorty]

Idk who our HC would be in this scenario, but assuming Adam Gase is fired from Miami, thoughts on him being the OC?

[REDandPEWTER]

42 minutes ago, Lil' Shorty said:

Idk who our HC would be in this scenario, but assuming Adam Gase is fired from Miami, thoughts on him being the OC?

It's going to take a lot for them to fire Gase. Tanehill went down in TC so he has that argument. Yeah he pulled cutler out of retirement but he was the best option Bc he knew the system best and flourished in it. I think Miami would be too quick to let go of a young stud head coach who took them to the playoffs in year one. 

[ravishingone]

Only way I see Koetter surviving is for Smith and Hayes to be replaced.   I think Warhop will not be retained and he ll have to convince the Glazers that by giving up play calling deities his team will play with better discipline and will allow his game management skills to be better.  

[bucsfan333]

I'm over the idea of explosives. Let's field an offense that can move the ball more consistently than a quick first down or two and a punt. We need to utilize short passes more often. It's ok to run a quick route that picks up six yards every once in a while. You set up big plays by taking short plays throughout the game, not the other way around. The running game is a mess but that starts up front.

That said, I think if we finish by winning another couple games and being competitive for the rest of the year, Dirk will be back. And I'd probably want him to get one last chance. I'm so sick of gutting the team every couple years. And Koetter still has guys bought in.

[ravishingone]

7 minutes ago, bucsfan333 said:

I'm over the idea of explosives. Let's field an offense that can move the ball more consistently than a quick first down or two and a punt. We need to utilize short passes more often. It's ok to run a quick route that picks up six yards every once in a while. You set up big plays by taking short plays throughout the game, not the other way around. The running game is a mess but that starts up front.

That said, I think if we finish by winning another couple games and being competitive for the rest of the year, Dirk will be back. And I'd probably want him to get one last chance. I'm so sick of gutting the team every couple years. And Koetter still has guys bought in.

I don't mind gutting the team when the choices were wrong in the first place.  We ve seen 3 years of Koetter play calling.  I don't see a whole lot of short passing concepts in his play book.  With a running game, the passing game is dynamic.  I don't see a lot of imagination getting Howard isolated and using his speed.  Humphries is a great story, but I have zero idea why Godwin isn't in morec3 wide sets.  For me, it s not only about the principles of the Koetter offense that need to be evaluated,  but his faith or lack of with guys on the roster being used I really question at this point.

[bucsfan333]

5 minutes ago, ravishingone said:

I don't mind gutting the team when the choices were wrong in the first place.  We ve seen 3 years of Koetter play calling.  I don't see a whole lot of short passing concepts in his play book.  With a running game, the passing game is dynamic.  I don't see a lot of imagination getting Howard isolated and using his speed.  Humphries is a great story, but I have zero idea why Godwin isn't in morec3 wide sets.  For me, it s not only about the principles of the Koetter offense that need to be evaluated,  but his faith or lack of with guys on the roster being used I really question at this point.

I don't think Koetter was the wrong choice though.

[ravishingone]

6 minutes ago, bucsfan333 said:

I don't think Koetter was the wrong choice though.

It depends,  he assembled his staff, that cannot be dismissed.   The deficiencies on the oline are just as much his as Licht s, IMO.  It is going to be tough for Koetter to survive when Licht is not going to be retained.   When the Colts and Panthers changed GMs and not the head coach, I'm pretty sure pretty much the entire coaching staff came back.  I find it difficult to believe that a new GM would love Koetter the head coach so much and believe his only mistake was hiring Mike Smith.   Could be wrong certainly.