warfelg Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 3 hours ago, Dcash4 said: That tag is likely to be north of $25M and that's a hard cap hit. No flexibility. Which is a big reason why if I can get him around $20M on what equates to a 2 year deal WITH flexibility, I would do it in a heartbeat. IMO, the options are sign him or let him walk.....and the walk part sucks. You know what Fitz is in this defense. You don’t know what DJ is in this offense. It would be dumb to commit to DJ now without knowing how he fits into the picture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 2 hours ago, bigben07MVP said: DJ was able to go 107 - 1100 - 8 169 targets. 144 the year before. 313 targets for 197 catches 2092 yards 16 TD in a two year span. That’s a ton of targets for that production. AJ Brown just got paid $25Mil AAV for the same yards and TDs in 6 less games and 100 less targets. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcash4 Posted June 16, 2022 Author Share Posted June 16, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, warfelg said: You know what Fitz is in this defense. You don’t know what DJ is in this offense. It would be dumb to commit to DJ now without knowing how he fits into the picture. I may not know, but I can take an educated guess. What he does, and does well, plays across the entirety of the league. His type of game isn’t put into a silo. But the point I was making was still that if you don’t like him on what is essentially a two year deal worth $20-$22M spread over 3 years, you’re gonna hate him at $27M and a hard hit. The franchise tag would be a rough choice. Edited June 16, 2022 by Dcash4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 6 minutes ago, Dcash4 said: I may not know, but I can take an educated guess. What he does, and does well, plays across the entirety of the league. His type of game isn’t put into a silo. But the point I was making was still that if you don’t like him on what is essentially a two year deal worth $20-$22M spread over 3 years, you’re gonna hate him at $27M and a hard hit. The franchise tag would be a rough choice. It’s not going to be that in terms of a deal. I rather see him go ball out and be forced to tag him than commit big money and realize he’s not a fit for there the offense is going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcash4 Posted June 16, 2022 Author Share Posted June 16, 2022 6 minutes ago, warfelg said: It’s not going to be that in terms of a deal. Why wouldn’t it be? You think they are going to guarantee him two years like we saw TJ and Minkah get? I for sure don’t… It’s likely he gets the standard one year guarantee, a boost in salary this year and his total cost spread over three year (22,23, cap charge in 24) like our normal contracts. Even if it’s all fake for a one year deal, it’s better than the tag. 9 minutes ago, warfelg said: I rather see him go ball out and be forced to tag him than commit big money and realize he’s not a fit for there the offense is going. But your not going to like the tag, that’s my point. If you don’t want a deal with DJ at $20M, why are you going to want him at $25M+, which is what it will cost one year from now if he balls out. You’re not going to want to do $27M on a franchise tag. So I would say: extend him, trade him, or let him walk in that order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 22 minutes ago, Dcash4 said: Why wouldn’t it be? You think they are going to guarantee him two years like we saw TJ and Minkah get? I for sure don’t… It’s likely he gets the standard one year guarantee, a boost in salary this year and his total cost spread over three year (22,23, cap charge in 24) like our normal contracts. Even if it’s all fake for a one year deal, it’s better than the tag. But your not going to like the tag, that’s my point. If you don’t want a deal with DJ at $20M, why are you going to want him at $25M+, which is what it will cost one year from now if he balls out. You’re not going to want to do $27M on a franchise tag. So I would say: extend him, trade him, or let him walk in that order. It’s a risk worth taking. Would I love it? No. But if he plays that good then it was worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
43M Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 4 hours ago, bigben07MVP said: Funny how you point to Ben’s elbow as an issue for JuJu but DJ was able to go 107 - 1100 - 8 and make a pro bowl with Ben who was a year older/declined. I was pointing that out because you were claiming AB leaving was responsible for Juju declining when there were clearly other factors. 4 hours ago, bigben07MVP said: Lets face it, I love JuJu and the toughness he brought but he failed miserably as a #1 WR after AB left. Juju is a very limited player who struggles to get open anywhere other than the slot. I dont totally disagree, and I dont believe he is a bonafide WR1. That being said, I dont think DJ is either. 4 hours ago, bigben07MVP said: The traits you point out for JuJu are his hands and toughness. Hands sure, I’ll give you that. But is toughness really the trait you’re looking for when paying a receiver? When Im looking for a guy who isnt afraid to go across the middle or atrack the ball, yes. 4 hours ago, bigben07MVP said: DJ is a top 10 route runner and man coverage beater in the league. At his best, sure. He gives up on routes way too often for my liking. All around consistency is DJs biggest issue. 4 hours ago, bigben07MVP said: Give me a guy who can put DBs in a blender and is a threat to take any catch to the house over a guy who struggles mightily to beat man coverage and has shown almost no ability to play outside without two all-pros (AB and Bell) attracting all the attention from defenses. Jujus biggest season came when Bell was holding out, so there goes that. Since Brown left, there have been numerous factors that have affected the passing game negatively. I agree that DJ better at beating man coverage and getting seperation, but Juju is much better at contested catches and just catching the ball in general. And most of all, due to injuries and whatnot, DJ has been more reliable the last few years. Doesnt mean he is easily the better player. 4 hours ago, bigben07MVP said: Theres a reason JuJu just signed for 1 year near league minimum after drawing very little interests from teams in the open market while DJ is about to get a multi-year 20+ mill/year deal from someone. But I’m sure you know better than all 32 NFL franchises right? First, you clearly have zero clue what "league minimum" is. And beyond that, he took a more team friendly deal after an injury riddled season to play in possibly the best offense in the league in an effort to maximize his chances of improving his value. Its not rocket science. Secondly, I never claimed I knew better than anyone, but its laughable that that is the best reasoning you can come up with, especially with some of the laughable deals and trades we have seen with WRs this offseason. Do I "know better" than the people running teams like Arizona and Jacksonville? Perhaps not, but I do know Id never pay what Jax paid for their WRs or trade a first for Marquise Brown. But you do you and keep acting like people running spirts teams dont regularly make terrible decisions that make little sense in many cases, or just throw around a ton of money simply because they can. 4 hours ago, bigben07MVP said: Yet you call ME delusional for simply saying DJ is better than JuJu I said youre delusional IF you believe DJ is SIGNIFICANTLY better than Juju. Again, there are absolutely areas I think DJ is better in....but acting like he is unquestionably worth a massive deal and the fact that Juju didnt get one somehow proves he is inferior is Mark Madden-esque logic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigben07MVP Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 @43MI get that DJ isn’t your cup of tea, but to say JuJu is a better WR than DJ is a laughable statement as best, which is what started this conversation in the first place. JuJu has something like 1.5 million guaranteed this year. League min. is around 700k. I know he has incentives up to a much higher number, but my point remains his contract was near league minimum. Clearly teams weren’t lining up for his services or he could’ve gotten more than 1.5. You proved my point yourself, the WR market was CRAZY this offseason with teams irresponsibly throwing money and draft picks around for them. AJ Brown who can’t stay health going for a 1st and 25 mill/year, Christian freaking Kirk getting 20+, and all JuJu could fetch was 1.5 mill in an incentive laden contract for a team desperate for WR help. You’re acting as if I’m claiming DJ is an all-pro and JuJu is a practice squad player. Again, I love JuJu…he’s a class act regardless of what boneheaded Steelers fans/reporters make him out to be. He’s always reminded me so much of Hines Ward who is one of my favorite Steelers of all time. But…as it stands today DJ is at least 2-3x more valuable of a WR than JuJu is. Don’t let your bias of not wanting to pay DJ distract you from what we’ve both watched on the field the past few seasons. I would agree that JuJu at 1.5 mill is a way better value than DJ at 22+ mill, but just flat out claiming JuJu is better than DJ is an awful take. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jebrick Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 Some of the WR troubles are the scheme or lack there of. I would still like to see the Steelers SCHEME receivers open. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcash4 Posted June 17, 2022 Author Share Posted June 17, 2022 2 hours ago, jebrick said: Some of the WR troubles are the scheme or lack there of. I would still like to see the Steelers SCHEME receivers open. You don't think 4 across curls is a scheme!? How dare you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jebrick Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 28 minutes ago, Dcash4 said: You don't think 4 across curls is a scheme!? How dare you! 3 curls and a fly. Don't forget Claypool's route. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 3 hours ago, jebrick said: Some of the WR troubles are the scheme or lack there of. I would still like to see the Steelers SCHEME receivers open. Hence why I would rather see DJ play out the year and get tagged. Especially since growing reports and comments make it look like Canadas offense was neutered last year and of positional flexibility. Truth be told, none of us really know what this offense is going to look like and who’s a fit for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcash4 Posted June 17, 2022 Author Share Posted June 17, 2022 1 hour ago, jebrick said: 3 curls and a fly. Don't forget Claypool's route. Ahh you are right, I forgot about that. Let's also be realistic and put in the outlet swing pass to Najee to the 2 curl side, and not to the clear out. Better for Najee to have 4 defenders to fight through within the first 2 yards of the line than 2. Damn our offense was bad... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 25 minutes ago, Dcash4 said: Ahh you are right, I forgot about that. Let's also be realistic and put in the outlet swing pass to Najee to the 2 curl side, and not to the clear out. Better for Najee to have 4 defenders to fight through within the first 2 yards of the line than 2. Damn our offense was bad... We forgot the -1 yard bubble screen just stand there route. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August4th Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 1 hour ago, Dcash4 said: Damn our offense was bad... been watching some condensed 12-13 minute highlights of games from last yr and I think I've seen one pass play over 20 yards in the 3 games I've watched( late season games vs tenn, bal and cle) it was a miracle that we won 9 games with that offense and poor tackling/run defense. They might be the worse steelers team in like 30 years when not considering the record Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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