2022 Off-Season Thread: The Dead szn...

[MOSteelers56]

13 minutes ago, SMashMouthMike said:

Did he win any playoffs games, I can’t remember his teams. 

I don't think he did, but he kept tearing his knees to shreds almost immediately upon going into the league. He was a great prospect, though.

[SMashMouthMike]

I did not remember he was a crazy good good college prospect, just that he came from the big 12 conference? at the time and getting his knee destroyed in the pros. I felt sorry for him, lol. 

[Dcash4]

2 hours ago, warfelg said:

I saw an interesting thread (not sure if I saw it here or elsewhere) but it highlighted how teams are either paying the WR's while the QB is cheap, or paying the QB and keeping the WR's cheap.

I know people laughed at the Eagles for the QB factory comment, but we are literally that for WR's.  We just failed at the cashing in at the right time part IMO.  

If we can have 2 rookie contract WRs, one fair contract WR, rookie contract QB, we can dump everything into paying a defense and OL.  That's a SB winning formula with the right QB.

I am very curious to see what happens with wide receivers moving forward with their market at this level, their asset return super high, and finding out how much the Raiders/Dolphins/Chiefs/Packers improve or worsen. 

I think we will see a bit of a wave of what you mentioned in the first sentence -- highly paid QB's being matched with lower cost receivers (not low talent, but rookie deal dudes). The point of high priced QB's is that they are good enough to elevate the people around them -- so we are going to see how much production changes this year with the Packers and the Chiefs. 

What's funny is that reports have both of those teams being interested in paying the receivers...but they kinda lucked into a league wide experiment on value. 

I think that's the right way to go. When I think about Big Ben and his #2/#3 receivers -- those faces and names never mattered. They would change, at times yearly, and continually produce at very similar levels (especially #3). 

[43M]

If we take Ridder round 1, Tomlin will be gone by the time his rookie contract is up.   Ridder was an extremely overrated college QB and while I wont act like he has zero upside, I think his ceiling is about Derek Carr level, but I think is much much more likely to end up like Geno Smith.

[Dcash4]

Thought this was interesting in terms of Bush. I thought he was playing well and improved in the early portion of year 2, but last year was about 8 steps back. I was hoping for even just a minor rebound, but maybe there’s no rebound to be had after an injury like that. 

[bigben07MVP]

4 hours ago, 43M said:

If we take Ridder round 1, Tomlin will be gone by the time his rookie contract is up.   Ridder was an extremely overrated college QB and while I wont act like he has zero upside, I think his ceiling is about Derek Carr level, but I think is much much more likely to end up like Geno Smith.

I think Ridder has the highest floor of any QB prospect in this draft (not saying much). At worst I think he’s a slightly less turnover prone Daniel Jones. Best case is like Tannehill. My main knock against taking him is like, is he really that much better than Mitch? I truly think Mitch could end up being a top 12-16 QB (if everything plays out perfectly, and I mean perfectly). 

That’s why I lean Willis or bust. I think there will be some decent starters to come out of this draft but there’s just zero upside to compete with the Mahomes/Allen/Burrow etc tier. At least Willis has a punchers chance.

[43M]

1 hour ago, bigben07MVP said:

I think Ridder has the highest floor of any QB prospect in this draft (not saying much). At worst I think he’s a slightly less turnover prone Daniel Jones. Best case is like Tannehill. My main knock against taking him is like, is he really that much better than Mitch? I truly think Mitch could end up being a top 12-16 QB (if everything plays out perfectly, and I mean perfectly). 

That’s why I lean Willis or bust. I think there will be some decent starters to come out of this draft but there’s just zero upside to compete with the Mahomes/Allen/Burrow etc tier. At least Willis has a punchers chance.

If we take Willis at 20...I wouldn't like it, but Id live with it.

If we trade a future first to move up for him (or any other QB), I might be done with this team until Tomlin/Colbert are gone or said QB makes me look like Mel Kiper.

On another note.....If Brandon Hunt isnt hired as the next GM and they go outside, and we do trade up for a QB, it will be, IMO, the single biggest display of incompetence Ive ever seen from this franchise.    That or they are just bringing in a puppet and Tomlin will be the de facto GM going forward...which is even worse.

[43M]

2 hours ago, Dcash4 said:

Thought this was interesting in terms of Bush. I thought he was playing well and improved in the early portion of year 2, but last year was about 8 steps back. I was hoping for even just a minor rebound, but maybe there’s no rebound to be had after an injury like that. 

He's only really looked good when the rest of the defense around him was playing at an elite level.   Im not saying the ACL tear didnt affect his play, but I feel like people might be using that to dismiss that most of his issues in 2021 were issues long before the ACL tear.     The ramifications of the ACL tear may have magnified his shortcomings, but certainly didnt create them.

I have very little faith in Bush becoming an asset to this defense, and I think the front office feels the same way.

We'll see, I guess.

[bigben07MVP]

6 hours ago, 43M said:

He's only really looked good when the rest of the defense around him was playing at an elite level.   Im not saying the ACL tear didnt affect his play, but I feel like people might be using that to dismiss that most of his issues in 2021 were issues long before the ACL tear.     The ramifications of the ACL tear may have magnified his shortcomings, but certainly didnt create them.

I have very little faith in Bush becoming an asset to this defense, and I think the front office feels the same way.

We'll see, I guess.

Idk when I watched Bush last year I saw a player who was timid as hell and was just not in the right spot to make plays. Just going off my eyes it seemed like it was a mental thing that could potentially be fixed. Also let’s not forget the weird stuff on twitter right before the season, dude was just not there mentally. One more point, if you recall his injury happened on a play where he was flying to the ball like his hair was on fire (like he used to do a lot) and he just mis-stepped (non-contact) and blew his knee out. It’s easy to understand why he was playing so timid and hesitant to release that same type of play style. 

Make no mistake about it, he was one of the worst LBs in football in 2021 and there was physical things too like getting swallowed up too easily by blockers and missing tackles but I don’t think it was necessarily a product of the players around him as to why he regressed so heavily. I am holding out hope he can somewhat return to form but there’s almost no chance he ever lives up to #10 overall pick status. I do think he started playing a little better towards the last 4-5 games (was still bad though) so hopefully he can build on that in 2022 especially with a hopefully vastly improved D Line in front of him. He’s still only 23 years old. 

Like you said, we’ll see. I think there’s about the same chance he turns out to be a complete bust as there is he returns to the flashes we saw pre-injury. Hoping for the best because we need him. 

[43M]

37 minutes ago, bigben07MVP said:

Idk when I watched Bush last year I saw a player who was timid as hell and was just not in the right spot to make plays. Just going off my eyes it seemed like it was a mental thing that could potentially be fixed. Also let’s not forget the weird stuff on twitter right before the season, dude was just not there mentally. One more point, if you recall his injury happened on a play where he was flying to the ball like his hair was on fire (like he used to do a lot) and he just mis-stepped (non-contact) and blew his knee out. It’s easy to understand why he was playing so timid and hesitant to release that same type of play style. 

Make no mistake about it, he was one of the worst LBs in football in 2021 and there was physical things too like getting swallowed up too easily by blockers and missing tackles but I don’t think it was necessarily a product of the players around him as to why he regressed so heavily. I am holding out hope he can somewhat return to form but there’s almost no chance he ever lives up to #10 overall pick status. I do think he started playing a little better towards the last 4-5 games (was still bad though) so hopefully he can build on that in 2022 especially with a hopefully vastly improved D Line in front of him. He’s still only 23 years old. 

Like you said, we’ll see. I think there’s about the same chance he turns out to be a complete bust as there is he returns to the flashes we saw pre-injury. Hoping for the best because we need him. 

He was definitely better before the injury, but it wasn't as if all of his issues were due to the injury.    He has always largely been a highlight reel type player who is either making splash plays or doing nothing at all.   He has never been particularly good at wrapping up, getting off blocks or diagnosing plays.    He used his athleticism to make up for so many shortcomings in college, but they are so much more evident in the NFL.

He did look solid with Vince Williams next to him, and Alualu and Tuitt up front.    Ive said it before, I believe Bush COULD be a nice support ILB ala Larry Foote.....but he will never be the star ILB you expect to get when you trade up to the top 10 to get him like we did.

I hope he bounces back, but between the Jack signing, looking hard at ILBs in the draft and looking like they wont pick up Bush's 5th year option, I think its pretty evident they dont have much faith in him.

[jebrick]

2 hours ago, bigben07MVP said:

Idk when I watched Bush last year I saw a player who was timid as hell and was just not in the right spot to make plays. Just going off my eyes it seemed like it was a mental thing that could potentially be fixed. Also let’s not forget the weird stuff on twitter right before the season, dude was just not there mentally. One more point, if you recall his injury happened on a play where he was flying to the ball like his hair was on fire (like he used to do a lot) and he just mis-stepped (non-contact) and blew his knee out. It’s easy to understand why he was playing so timid and hesitant to release that same type of play style. 

Make no mistake about it, he was one of the worst LBs in football in 2021 and there was physical things too like getting swallowed up too easily by blockers and missing tackles but I don’t think it was necessarily a product of the players around him as to why he regressed so heavily. I am holding out hope he can somewhat return to form but there’s almost no chance he ever lives up to #10 overall pick status. I do think he started playing a little better towards the last 4-5 games (was still bad though) so hopefully he can build on that in 2022 especially with a hopefully vastly improved D Line in front of him. He’s still only 23 years old. 

Like you said, we’ll see. I think there’s about the same chance he turns out to be a complete bust as there is he returns to the flashes we saw pre-injury. Hoping for the best because we need him. 

I question the bolded part.  Where were the splash plays in college?

[bigben07MVP]

1 hour ago, jebrick said:

I question the bolded part.  Where were the splash plays in college?

I wasn’t talking about turnovers, I said he played like his hair was on fire. He didn’t turn the ball over in college and all of a sudden started to in his rookie year which I think was due to luck and playing on a really good defense.

What I meant is he flew all over the field/sideline to sideline and made plays that way. His speed is the one thing that was super apparent in his rookie year. 

[jebrick]

2 hours ago, bigben07MVP said:

I wasn’t talking about turnovers, I said he played like his hair was on fire. He didn’t turn the ball over in college and all of a sudden started to in his rookie year which I think was due to luck and playing on a really good defense.

What I meant is he flew all over the field/sideline to sideline and made plays that way. His speed is the one thing that was super apparent in his rookie year. 

I am not talking turnovers either.  TFL is a major one.  If he is shooting a gap to make a play in the backfield, it will be a splash play.  He just did not have many in college.  It is not his style, which is an issue.

[warfelg]

8 minutes ago, jebrick said:

I am not talking turnovers either.  TFL is a major one.  If he is shooting a gap to make a play in the backfield, it will be a splash play.  He just did not have many in college.  It is not his style, which is an issue.

His style seemed to be more a sit back read and react style. Not great in the nfl but can make you look studley in college. 

[bigben07MVP]

12 minutes ago, jebrick said:

I am not talking turnovers either.  TFL is a major one.  If he is shooting a gap to make a play in the backfield, it will be a splash play.  He just did not have many in college.  It is not his style, which is an issue.

I’m talking about reading/reacting and flying to the ball to make a tackle, not making splash plays. His best trait is/was his closing speed flying sideline to sideline to track down RBs and QBs (like Lamar).