Do you know enough to give up on Deshone Kizer?

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

21 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

A guy whose salary we took on for an extra 2nd and who hoped could take the job. Fair point...we did at least make an attempt. After preseason I would have liked to grab one, but I'll concede this one for sure.

Because he's #1 on their board. Why else have a big board?

That Hue isn't a QB whisperer or quality talent evaluator who realizes the value of having a big board and sticking to it.

I don't know how to split posts to make them look as nifty as you....

Osweiler didn't have to be that if Hue felt this team needed veteran leadership. I can't see how Sashi would care about who the 3rd qb is.

You have a big board to rank talent.  To be fair to everyone, we don't know yet if Hue was right or wrong about Watson, but time will tell.

 

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

15 minutes ago, Don Roshi said:

He's not playing it for us. It felt like we started the season with 4 SS's. I apologies for not getting my point across the way I want. I'm just frustrated. 

No need to apologize, it's all good in the hood.

[MWil23]

5 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

I don't know how to split posts to make them look as nifty as you....

After each line, hit return/enter twice, spacing it and it will automatically split each line/post.

5 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

You have a big board to rank talent.  

Right, and my point is when you deviate from that board, dangerous/bad things tend to happen.

5 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

To be fair to everyone, we don't know yet if Hue was right or wrong about Watson, but time will tell.

I accept that. Just like I accept time will tell on the Peppers acquisition/trade and the Coleman/Wentz trade. First glance, not looking good...but who knows? 

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

5 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

After each line, hit return/enter twice, spacing it and it will automatically split each line/post.

Nice!

5 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

Right, and my point is when you deviate from that board, dangerous/bad things tend to happen.

Sashi didn't, he weighed the value of Hooker vs that of the trade and made (IMO) the right call.

5 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

I accept that. Just like I accept time will tell on the Peppers acquisition/trade and the Coleman/Wentz trade. First glance, not looking good...but who knows? 

Eh, I think we know on the Wentz trade lol. Can't win 'em all though.

[Rod Johnson]

1 hour ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

What was Osweiller? Kessler and Hogan aren't rookies either, they should be able to help a rookie a bit as well.

I thought everyone was in the same page here, when did everyone assume this was a 2 year plan?  I thought Jimmy knew what this was, the fans, Hue, everybody.  I didn't think it could be said more clearly or made more obvious.  But apparently it's reasonable for an owner to scrap a plan halfway through because the front office wasn't ahead of schedule?

Watson may have been 1 on their board, but why would they take him?  The qb guru wanted a safety instead, so what does that tell you? If I'm Sashi and my "qb whisperer" looks at a qb and says "I'll take the FS", that tells me all I need to know. The next option was Hooker or 2 firsts.  I'd have taken the picks both then and now.  

Perhaps we'll have to agree to disagree but there is no reasonable defense in my mind for Haslam's complete lack of patience. If you sign off on a long term, 4-5 year rebuild, give them the time or don't sign off on it. 

To be devil's advocate here:

I don't know if what constitutes a "plan" is the sum of all parts.  The sum being that we're a contender in year 5.  Plans are multiple steps and reaching the next step is the goal.  "We have a 5 year plan" implies a sequence of goals they are meaning to achieve over the course.

Year 1: Clear xxxxxxxxx cap space, Acquire 2 first round picks, acquire 10+ draft picks for next year, etc. etc.

Year 2: Win 3 games, find a viable long/short term QB, maintain xxxxxxxxx cap, Acquire another first round pick, etc. etc.

.......

Year 5: win the division, etc. etc.

One can see the picture.  Now maybe this depiction might contradict what Jimmy expressed in press conferences, I honestly don't remember, but it would be silly to imagine a 5 year plan that didn't have goals over the course.   And it would be terrible to have a plan that wasn't reflexive until year 5.

Any argument for/against Sashi's firing should be wrested on the extent he's achieved goals so far.  I can basically guarantee that these goals were explicitly expressed between Haslem and Sashi before or shortly after his hiring, and to a much greater extent than what they can expose to the media.  It's clearly us who dont know what the plan was...not the man who signed off on it.

 

[Rod Johnson]

1 hour ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

And let's just keep in mind, this is football, not neurosurgery.  These guys don't need personal mentors to catch a football or tackle someone.

Most these guys are 22-25 years old.  They don't need help to know how to catch a football, but they don't know how to even be adults, let alone professionals, let alone work hard enough to be great.  You think players that stick around in this league check out after practice is over?  You can't see the importance of surrounding yourself with successful people in your profession?  These kids are going from being student athletes into professionals in one of the most highly competitive fields.  Veterans are a huge component to long and short term success.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

5 minutes ago, Rod Johnson said:

To be devil's advocate here:

I don't know if what constitutes a "plan" is the sum of all parts.  The sum being that we're a contender in year 5.  Plans are multiple steps and reaching the next step is the goal.  "We have a 5 year plan" implies a sequence of goals they are meaning to achieve over the course.

Year 1: Clear xxxxxxxxx cap space, Acquire 2 first round picks, acquire 10+ draft picks for next year, etc. etc.

Year 2: Win 3 games, find a viable long/short term QB, maintain xxxxxxxxx cap, Acquire another first round pick, etc. etc.

.......

Year 5: win the division, etc. etc.

One can see the picture.  Now maybe this depiction might contradict what Jimmy expressed in press conferences, I honestly don't remember, but it would be silly to imagine a 5 year plan that didn't have goals over the course.   And it would be terrible to have a plan that wasn't reflexive until year 5.

Any argument for/against Sashi's firing should be wrested on the extent he's achieved goals so far.  I can basically guarantee that these goals were explicitly expressed between Haslem and Sashi before or shortly after his hiring, and to a much greater extent than what they can expose to the media.  It's clearly us who dont know what the plan was...not the man who signed off on it.

 

Of course there are goals that need to be met, but expecting a top down rebuild to occur in 2 years with no talent base to start with is foolish.

If Sashi had found "the guy" in 2018, we're in a good position moving forward.

Im not sure what gives you such confidence in Haslam, he's bungled essentially every decision for 5 years.

[Rod Johnson]

3 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Of course there are goals that need to be met, but expecting a top down rebuild to occur in 2 years with no talent base to start with is foolish.

If Sashi had found "the guy" in 2018, we're in a good position moving forward.

Im not sure what gives you such confidence in Haslam, he's bungled essentially every decision for 5 years.

The expectation was probably much lower than a top down rebuild in year 2. 

I have no faith in Haslem.  I was pissed when we fired Chud, I would have kept Pettine, but Sashi is not a hill I will even attempt to defend let alone die on.  I sympathize with continuity for it's own stake, but I have standards.  Our team is a disgrace to football.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

7 minutes ago, Rod Johnson said:

Most these guys are 22-25 years old.  They don't need help to know how to catch a football, but they don't know how to even be adults, let alone professionals, let alone work hard enough to be great.  You think players that stick around in this league check out after practice is over?  You can't see the importance of surrounding yourself with successful people in your profession?  These kids are going from being student athletes into professionals in one of the most highly competitive fields.  Veterans are a huge component to long and short term success.

I'm not going to list the vets at literally every position group again.

Hell, they have a first ballot HOF as a teammate. How much more success do you want?

The resources were there if their services were needed.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

2 minutes ago, Rod Johnson said:

The expectation was probably much lower than a top down rebuild in year 2. 

I have no faith in Haslem.  I was pissed when we fired Chud, I would have kept Pettine, but Sashi is not a hill I will even attempt to defend let alone die on.  I sympathize with continuity for it's own stake, but I have standards.  Our team is a disgrace to football.

Kept Pettine...standards?  Stop it.

His defense was both the highest paid and worst in the league.

[Bonanza23]

59 minutes ago, Rod Johnson said:

To be devil's advocate here:

I don't know if what constitutes a "plan" is the sum of all parts.  The sum being that we're a contender in year 5.  Plans are multiple steps and reaching the next step is the goal.  "We have a 5 year plan" implies a sequence of goals they are meaning to achieve over the course.

Year 1: Clear xxxxxxxxx cap space, Acquire 2 first round picks, acquire 10+ draft picks for next year, etc. etc.

Year 2: Win 3 games, find a viable long/short term QB, maintain xxxxxxxxx cap, Acquire another first round pick, etc. etc.

.......

Year 5: win the division, etc. etc.

One can see the picture.  Now maybe this depiction might contradict what Jimmy expressed in press conferences, I honestly don't remember, but it would be silly to imagine a 5 year plan that didn't have goals over the course.   And it would be terrible to have a plan that wasn't reflexive until year 5.

Any argument for/against Sashi's firing should be wrested on the extent he's achieved goals so far.  I can basically guarantee that these goals were explicitly expressed between Haslem and Sashi before or shortly after his hiring, and to a much greater extent than what they can expose to the media.  It's clearly us who dont know what the plan was...not the man who signed off on it.

 

I’m willing to bet good hard earned money we win three games this year with a competent coach including yesterday. And our qb would have been found next year with a decent team around him. 

Yeah no way to prove it. But I feel pretty sure the wrong cat was fired. I would have been good however with keeping sashi and adding Dorsey. 

[Bonanza23]

19 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Kept Pettine...standards?  Stop it.

His defense was both the highest paid and worst in the league.

Yeah my buddy would have kept pettine also ?

[MWil23]

1 hour ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Nice!

That’s why they keep me around;)

1 hour ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Sashi didn't, he weighed the value of Hooker vs that of the trade and made (IMO) the right call.

Right, sorry I didn’t clarify I was taking a shot at the QB whisperer Hue who wanted Hooker over his #1 ranked player.

1 hour ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Eh, I think we know on the Wentz trade lol. Can't win 'em all though.

Wentz tore his ACL like Watson did and we are still acquiring more players...just playing devils advocate for the sake of logic.

[Rod Johnson]

59 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Kept Pettine...standards?  Stop it.

His defense was both the highest paid and worst in the league.

Yet you wanna ride for Sashi?  Are you a masochist?

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

2 minutes ago, Rod Johnson said:

Yet you wanna ride for Sashi?  Are you a masochist?

Committed.

A visionary.

A man ahead of my time.