2023 NFL Draft Prospects

[AZBearsFan]

7 hours ago, Madmike90 said:

I floated the idea a while back that Wilson could be viewed higher by NFL teams…and especially 4-3 teams…a while back…I guess it’s sorta like the Skoronski argument for me…where is the growth potential for Anderson if he measures in day 6-2’1/2” 245lbs combated to Wilson at 6-6” 275lbs with reported 36” arms? It’s why Trevon Walker when before Aidan Hutchinson and those two are clearly a closer physical match but you then fact in Walkers testing and that only adds to the argument for him…could Wilson test better than Anderson? Very possibly…I think Anderson is great but to get the best from him it needs to be in a 3-4 IMO and as we saw with Roquan last year scheme can be everything where as Wilson seems to have the physical traits to do so many different things from OLB to DE to 5T to even a 3T on passing downs…that will without doubt be taken into consideration.

We’ve been back and forth on him before, but I really think you’re overthinking Will Anderson. He plays with his hand in the dirt half the time as it is, and even if he stands up to rush the QB on obvious passing downs, so what? Does that really change anything about the scheme? I sure don’t think so.

We talk all the time about how coaches need to match their scheme to their talent and not the other way around, but usually on offense. If you can’t figure out how to use Will Anderson on your defense, then you’re not the right guy to run the defense. 

[Madmike90]

10 minutes ago, AZBearsFan said:

We’ve been back and forth on him before, but I really think you’re overthinking Will Anderson. He plays with his hand in the dirt half the time as it is, and even if he stands up to rush the QB on obvious passing downs, so what? Does that really change anything about the scheme? I sure don’t think so.

We talk all the time about how coaches need to match their scheme to their talent and not the other way around, but usually on offense. If you can’t figure out how to use Will Anderson on your defense, then you’re not the right guy to run the defense. 

I think your missing my point though...this isn't about if Anderson can be a good player...he can...this is about maximizing the talent to being a truly elite player...very rarely do you ever find yourself picking this highly...we need to come away with someone with the potential to be a utter star...it's why I am so high on Carter because I still think there are some technique point that can be improved to take advantage of the physical upside...with Anderson he is so good technically and already plays with a killer instinct and intensity of a pro that I wonder how much more can we get out of him? All these guys are projects and all these guys will need to improve in the pros...do you see that growth potential in Anderson?

[AZBearsFan]

6 minutes ago, Madmike90 said:

I think your missing my point though...this isn't about if Anderson can be a good player...he can...this is about maximizing the talent to being a truly elite player...very rarely do you ever find yourself picking this highly...we need to come away with someone with the potential to be a utter star...it's why I am so high on Carter because I still think there are some technique point that can be improved to take advantage of the physical upside...with Anderson he is so good technically and already plays with a killer instinct and intensity of a pro that I wonder how much more can we get out of him? All these guys are projects and all these guys will need to improve in the pros...do you see that growth potential in Anderson?

How much more do I think we can get out of a guy if he’s already technically strong (agree) and plays with elite intensity (also agree)? Aren’t those good things? How much more is there? Should his college dominance not then likely translate really well to the pro game if his skills and effort are already at a pro level?

I’m personally not going to hold it against Anderson that his floor is incredibly high. How many other guys have ever been DPOY in the SEC more than once? That conference had SIX 1st round defenders last year and that didn’t even include Anderson. How many 2x Nagurski award winners? He’s been a dude amongst dudes since he was 19. That makes me want him more, not less.

To be clear, these are rich people problems we’re talking about here. Anderson and Carter both have DPOY ceilings, and we should be ecstatic if we land either, but I think it’s unfair to hold it against Anderson for already being more refined than Carter is at his craft where we sit today.

[Madmike90]

10 minutes ago, AZBearsFan said:

How much more do I think we can get out of a guy if he’s already technically strong (agree) and plays with elite intensity (also agree)? Aren’t those good things? How much more is there? Should his college dominance not then likely translate really well to the pro game if his skills and effort are already at a pro level?

I’m personally not going to hold it against Anderson that his floor is incredibly high. How many other guys have ever been DPOY in the SEC more than once? That conference had SIX 1st round defenders last year and that didn’t even include Anderson. How many 2x Nagurski award winners? He’s been a dude amongst dudes since he was 19. That makes me want him more, not less.

To be clear, these are rich people problems we’re talking about here. Anderson and Carter both have DPOY ceilings, and we should be ecstatic if we land either, but I think it’s unfair to hold it against Anderson for already being more refined than Carter is at his craft where we sit today.

There great things...again no one is slighting Anderson here...simply pointing out I don't see the same growth potential as I do with Carter or even Wilson both of whom are also really good high floor players...NFL teams will value that potential...we see it time and time again...I would be ecstatic with any of the 3 if we can trade down and still get one but I just wonder what what we have heard from Poles/Flus/Williams if Anderson might be #3 on the list for them. 

[Sugashane]

I enjoy an unrealistic meathead scenario. Bears are likely going to be the most run-heavy team in the league next year too, so double down on it.

KC somehow tells Brown Jr to eff off, Bears get him. They then get Dawand Jones for RT, so the Bears have mammoth OTs now.

Jenkins and Braxton are both great run blockers and really athletic for OGs especially (Braxton would be a 9.37 RAS as an OG), and now the floor as a starter is Whitehair at C.

 

 

[AZBearsFan]

44 minutes ago, Madmike90 said:

There great things...again no one is slighting Anderson here...simply pointing out I don't see the same growth potential as I do with Carter or even Wilson both of whom are also really good high floor players...NFL teams will value that potential...we see it time and time again...I would be ecstatic with any of the 3 if we can trade down and still get one but I just wonder what what we have heard from Poles/Flus/Williams if Anderson might be #3 on the list for them. 

IMO, the only reason Anderson has less growth potential than those other guys is because he’s already realizing more of his potential than they are. Teams value how good a player can get, not how far they can go from where they are. Anderson and Carter have the same ridiculously high ceiling. Wilson is a click below those guys for me, but still really high. I put Murphy on the same plane in that regard as Wilson, but I think Wilson is a bit further along. 

[Madmike90]

Just now, AZBearsFan said:

IMO, the only reason Anderson has less growth potential than those other guys is because he’s already realizing more of his potential than they are. Teams value how good a player can get, not how far they can go from where they are. Anderson and Carter have the same ridiculously high ceiling. Wilson is a click below those guys for me, but still really high. I put Murphy on the same plane in that regard as Wilson, but I think Wilson is a bit further along. 

We will agree to disagree on that one...I don't think Anderson's physical upside is in the same categories as the other two.

[AZBearsFan]

44 minutes ago, Sugashane said:

I enjoy an unrealistic meathead scenario. Bears are likely going to be the most run-heavy team in the league next year too, so double down on it.

KC somehow tells Brown Jr to eff off, Bears get him. They then get Dawand Jones for RT, so the Bears have mammoth OTs now.

Jenkins and Braxton are both great run blockers and really athletic for OGs especially (Braxton would be a 9.37 RAS as an OG), and now the floor as a starter is Whitehair at C.

 

 

I’ve been thinking the past few days about if we sign a top LG like Powers if moving Whitehair back to C rather than releasing him makes the most sense. We still need a solid backup at G given Jenkins’ injury history and Whitehair can certainly be that (albeit a pricey one), but he’s also a capable C though and IMO would possibly be an upgrade over Patrick, and certainly over Mustipher. At least heading to the draft that upgrades 2 spots for us.

[AZBearsFan]

5 minutes ago, Madmike90 said:

We will agree to disagree on that one...I don't think Anderson's physical upside is in the same categories as the other two.

We came to agreeing to disagree before too lol. Are you assuming that he won’t be able to carry more than the 243 lb he was listed at last year? I think he looks like he could carry 250-255 pretty easily. That’s plenty IMO. 

[Madmike90]

11 hours ago, AZBearsFan said:

We came to agreeing to disagree before too lol. Are you assuming that he won’t be able to carry more than the 243 lb he was listed at last year? I think he looks like he could carry 250-255 pretty easily. That’s plenty IMO. 

I reckon he plays at about 240lbs...I just don't feel anything this coaching staff have said suggest that is the type of everydown DL they are looking for...now as you said Anderson might be the exception to the rule given his play but there is no doubt in my mind it is one of the things that keeps Wilson close to him in the conversation.

[Sugashane]

12 hours ago, AZBearsFan said:

I’ve been thinking the past few days about if we sign a top LG like Powers if moving Whitehair back to C rather than releasing him makes the most sense. We still need a solid backup at G given Jenkins’ injury history and Whitehair can certainly be that (albeit a pricey one), but he’s also a capable C though and IMO would possibly be an upgrade over Patrick, and certainly over Mustipher. At least heading to the draft that upgrades 2 spots for us.

That is exactly why I hopped off the 'cut Whitehair' train a few weeks back. I was literally going against my own foundational belief of putting the best 5 OL out there and have them, the OL coach, and the OC figure it out.

Now since Whitehair isn't even potentially in the long-term plans he is right now a utility OL. If the Bears end up getting McGlinchey and Pocic, then he is a LG. If they get Powers instead of Pocic then he is a C. But even then he needs to compete for a starting spot IMO. Even if you shore up the entire OL just in FA you still look for potential replacements so getting a John Michael Schmitz, Tippmann, O'Cyrus Torrence, or Vorhees should have them competing with him regardless of where he ends up. ATM he is the 2nd highest paid player on the roster for 2023 so he needs to establish that he is one of the top 5. Otherwise I'd cut him in final cuts - not earlier in case there is an injury.

[Madmike90]

11 minutes ago, Sugashane said:

That is exactly why I hopped off the 'cut Whitehair' train a few weeks back. I was literally going against my own foundational belief of putting the best 5 OL out there and have them, the OL coach, and the OC figure it out.

Now since Whitehair isn't even potentially in the long-term plans he is right now a utility OL. If the Bears end up getting McGlinchey and Pocic, then he is a LG. If they get Powers instead of Pocic then he is a C. But even then he needs to compete for a starting spot IMO. Even if you shore up the entire OL just in FA you still look for potential replacements so getting a John Michael Schmitz, Tippmann, O'Cyrus Torrence, or Vorhees should have them competing with him regardless of where he ends up. ATM he is the 2nd highest paid player on the roster for 2023 so he needs to establish that he is one of the top 5. Otherwise I'd cut him in final cuts - not earlier in case there is an injury.

To be fair I jumped off when I figured to get a FA OG to replace him we are probably looking at the Laken Tomlinson deal of 3 years $30 million plus a million or two inflation for someone like Dalton Risner...bit too rich for my blood when we could keep Whitehair for another year and hopefully a guy like Ja'Tyre Carter develops or we draft a guard to develop...the guy I keep coming back to is Steve Avila...doesn't have the height & length I would really want but is just such a solid presence inside who moves better than his 330lbs frame would suggest...

Also wouldn't shock me if they are still not 100% sold on Teven Jenkins long term.

[Sugashane]

35 minutes ago, Madmike90 said:

To be fair I jumped off when I figured to get a FA OG to replace him we are probably looking at the Laken Tomlinson deal of 3 years $30 million plus a million or two inflation for someone like Dalton Risner...bit too rich for my blood when we could keep Whitehair for another year and hopefully a guy like Ja'Tyre Carter develops or we draft a guard to develop...the guy I keep coming back to is Steve Avila...doesn't have the height & length I would really want but is just such a solid presence inside who moves better than his 330lbs frame would suggest...

Also wouldn't shock me if they are still not 100% sold on Teven Jenkins long term.

Before Tippmann started seeming to shoot up the boards I was REALLY liking the idea of double dipping with him and Avila. I mean, I still do but it looked more affordable then. lol

Both have great physical upside and are powerful as hell. Them and Jenkins would be like 3 mac trucks in the run game. Add in Jones who has potential to be a top 10 run blocking LT (IDK if he was or not but he looked damn good there) and a good RT and the Bears rushing attack could be REALLY special. Not just special because of Fields. And honestly I am not scare to throw Jenkins back at RT either. If I could get Torrence, Avila and Tippmann all in one draft somehow, they are my IOL and Jenkins is going to RT.

As for your point on Jenkins, as much as I am a fan they should be concerned about his health. Missed plenty of time but he isn't even on the radar for replacing this season IMO. At the bare minimum he is playing through his rookie contract if I make the choice, but I sure as hell am looking for a prospect to either back him up or replace him if he keeps getting hurt.

[Madmike90]

1 minute ago, Sugashane said:

Before Tippmann started seeming to shoot up the boards I was REALLY liking the idea of double dipping with him and Avila. Both have great physical upside and are powerful as hell. Them and Jenkins would be like 3 mac trucks in the run game. Add in Jones who has potential to be a top 10 run blocking LT (IDK if he was or not but he looked damn good there) and a good RT and the Bears rushing attack could be REALLY special. Not just special because of Fields.

As for Jenkins, as much as I am a fan they should be concerned about his health. Missed plenty of time but he isn't even on the radar for replacing this season IMO.

I think we either need to double dip on the OL in either FA or the draft...would love to come out of FA with a starting RT and a potential starter at guard...Jawaan Taylor & Nate Davis would be excellent...then you can focus on drafting a center high...or say Taylor & Evan Brown then draft a guard high...

For me when I look at team building I hope Jenkins continues to play well and stays healthy but when the time comes I am also hoping he hits FA and given the lack of quality OL in the NFL today someone gives him a massive contract and I get a 3rd round comp pick for him down the road...the injuries are just too concern and I don't think there is any smoke without fire when it comes to what happened in camp last season.

[Sugashane]

2 hours ago, Madmike90 said:

I think we either need to double dip on the OL in either FA or the draft...would love to come out of FA with a starting RT and a potential starter at guard...Jawaan Taylor & Nate Davis would be excellent...then you can focus on drafting a center high...or say Taylor & Evan Brown then draft a guard high...

For me when I look at team building I hope Jenkins continues to play well and stays healthy but when the time comes I am also hoping he hits FA and given the lack of quality OL in the NFL today someone gives him a massive contract and I get a 3rd round comp pick for him down the road...the injuries are just too concern and I don't think there is any smoke without fire when it comes to what happened in camp last season.

I'd be damn happy about getting those two.

If he is playing well I don't want to replace him, if anything I think Getsy and Eberflus looked incredibly stupid with their ascertains of who should be starting on the OL. If Jenkins would have been gone then the Bears have Jones and then Whitehair would by far be the best player elsewhere on the OL. This is why I'm hopeful but extremely skeptical of them. Having Fields produce at a stretch below Tebow is smoke enough for me to be concerned.

Whatever though, I'm actually excited for FA for a change. lol