Why couldn't Rodgers be even slightly as successful as Brady?

[notthatbluestuff]

(admittedly, maybe a clickbait title - Rodgers has had plenty of success to be sure. Yet, how much is all of his success worth when compared to the titanic achievements of Tom Brady?)

Two sure-fire HOF QBs go at it on Sunday - potentially for the last time. One, however, will be talked about with hushed tones of awe 50 years from now - the other is Aaron Rodgers. In terms of regular season accolades, sure - Rodgers may edge Brady. 4 MVPs to 3. But what was it specifically that prevented Rodgers (1 championship from his lone SB trip) from even coming close to matching Brady (7 rings from 10 SB trips) in postseason and team success? After all, Rodgers is often touted as one of if not the most talented QB to ever play the game. What stood in the way?

Was it worse coaching? Worse teammates? His own failings? Luck? Harder intra-conference competition? 

Or all of the above?

Yes, Brady had Belichick for 20 years - but then he went to Tampa and essentially blew the coaching argument to smithereens in his first year there. Sure, he was on a very talented Bucs roster - but Rodgers has had plenty of talented rosters in GB. The two met in the NFC title game and Rodgers' team fell short (a familiar sight) while Brady marched onto the biggest stage (once again, a familiar sight). Why? What has Rodgers always lacked that Brady has always had?

[JAF-N72EX]

Why are you singling out Rodgers?  The title should be why isn't ANY QB as successful as Brady?

And the answer is because both Brady's career and the Belichick/Brady connection was so rare that we may never see it again.

 

[notthatbluestuff]

7 minutes ago, JAF-N72EX said:

Why are you singling out Rodgers?  The title should be why isn't ANY QB as successful as Brady?

Because 1) the two are playing against each other tomorrow, and 2) most QBs aren't even in the same stratosphere as Brady in terms of talent - Rodgers is. Peyton Manning, as an example, at least made it to four SBs and that was while sharing a conference with Brady. Those names are part of a very, very small group of what are commonly known as the most talented QBs in history. So yeah, that's why I'm not asking why Ryan Tannehill or Kirk Cousins aren't as successful as Brady, thanks for your question.

[JAF-N72EX]

12 minutes ago, notthatbluestuff said:

Because 1) the two are playing against each other tomorrow, and 2) most QBs aren't even in the same stratosphere as Brady in terms of talent - Rodgers is. Peyton Manning, as an example, at least made it to four SBs and that was while sharing a conference with Brady. Those names are part of a very, very small group of what are commonly known as the most talented QBs in history. So yeah, that's why I'm not asking why Ryan Tannehill or Kirk Cousins aren't as successful as Brady, thanks for your question.

They're not playing against each other.  The teams they play for are.

[Forge]

Winning is hard. 

Brady is a pretty massive outlier. 

[notthatbluestuff]

18 minutes ago, JAF-N72EX said:

They're not playing against each other.  The teams they play for are.

And this changes my point how?

[notthatbluestuff]

12 minutes ago, Forge said:

Winning is hard. 

Brady is a pretty massive outlier. 

Brady is a massive outlier and he normalized the idea of going to Super Bowl after Super Bowl, I'm being unfair to Rodgers on that front - but you're missing the point. I'm not asking why Rodgers isn't as as successful as Brady - I'm asking why he isn't even close. It's not like Brady was standing directly in his path his entire career. Rodgers is arguably top-3 all-time in terms of pure talent - one Super Bowl trip is an underwhelming return. Yes, it's a team game - so what was it specifically that made winning too hard for all those Rodgers teams?

[Forge]

3 minutes ago, notthatbluestuff said:

Brady is a massive outlier and he normalized the idea of going to Super Bowl after Super Bowl, I'm being unfair to Rodgers on that front - but you're missing the point. I'm not asking why Rodgers isn't as as successful as Brady - I'm asking why he isn't even close. It's not like Brady was standing directly in his path his entire career. Rodgers is arguably top-3 all-time in terms of pure talent - one Super Bowl trip is an underwhelming return. Yes, it's a team game - so what was it specifically that made winning too hard for all those Rodgers teams?

The answer is the same. Winning is hard and Brady is a massive outlier. Even winning multiple super bowls as a starter is an outlier.  How many have won multiple super bowls as a starter? A dozen? More than half of whom were before the salary cap. 

There's just a lot of random variance built into the format 

 

[notthatbluestuff]

11 minutes ago, Forge said:

The answer is the same. Winning is hard and Brady is a massive outlier. Even winning multiple super bowls as a starter is an outlier.  How many have won multiple super bowls as a starter? A dozen? More than half of whom were before the salary cap. 

There's just a lot of random variance built into the format 

 

Then lower the bar even farther to simply playing in more than one Super Bowl. How many QBs as talented as Rodgers have failed to do that? Peyton went to four. Roethlisberger went to three. Are they just outliers?

Put this another way since I don't think I'm making myself clear - Rodgers to my memory lost 4 NFC title games. Maybe more? Winning wasn't too hard until that point, then it became too hard. What was it specifically that has most commonly foiled Rodgers at the last hurdle? Coaching? The quality of the opposition? The quality of his teammates? Himself?

Edited September 24, 2022 by notthatbluestuff

[JAF-N72EX]

3 minutes ago, notthatbluestuff said:

And this changes my point how?

Because, by your own words, the basis of this question was built around "the two are playing against each other tomorrow" and it's always bothered me when people say X QB is playing against Y QB as if they're about to go 12 rounds lol.

To the point of the topic. Brady is better but Rodgers is more talented and it takes more than talent to win since it's a team game.  Rodgers is arguably the most talented QB of all-time but Brady more than makes up for it in other ways.  Brady has had good defenses around him and Rodgers has not.

 

[notthatbluestuff]

1 minute ago, JAF-N72EX said:

Because, by your own words, the basis of this question was built around "the two are playing against each other tomorrow" and it's always bothered me when people say X QB is playing against Y QB as if they're about to go 12 rounds lol.

That's just being needlessly pedantic - going back to your original question of why I'm choosing to compare Rodgers and Brady, if I change my answer to "because their teams are playing against each other tomorrow" then what does that change? Nothing. Regardless, that wasn't the only basis of my question.

Quote

To the point of the topic. Brady is better but Rodgers is more talented and it takes more than talent to win since it's a team game.  Rodgers is arguably the most talented QB of all-time but Brady more than makes up for it in other ways.  Brady has had good defenses around him and Rodgers has not.

Thanks - this is more of an attempt to answer the question at hand. Brady makes up for it in what ways? "It's a team game" - it certainly is, and Rodgers' teams have been #1 seeds on numerous occasions. Did they all lose because they bad defenses?

[notthatbluestuff]

FYI - I understand the annoyance when people pit QBs against each other as if they share the field at the same time, but in simplistic terms, they are competing against each other. It's like golf. They're not literally locking horns but they're trying to outdo the other, no? They're still attempting to find ways to move the ball and steer their offenses towards successful drives in order to get points on the board to a greater extent than the opposing QB can manage, no?

[Forge]

14 minutes ago, notthatbluestuff said:

Then lower the bar even farther to simply playing in more than one Super Bowl. How many QBs as talented as Rodgers have failed to do that? Peyton went to four. Roethlisberger went to three. Are they just outliers?

Put this another way since I don't think I'm making myself clear - Rodgers to my memory lost 4 NFC title games. Maybe more? Winning wasn't too hard until that point, then it became too hard. What was it specifically that has most commonly foiled Rodgers at the last hurdle? Coaching? The quality of the opposition? The quality of his teammates? Himself?

Young went to one. Marino. Brees. Moon went to 0. Fouts. Rivers.

While Rodgers going to one may be underwhelming, I'm also not sure it's outside the range of typical random variance either. 

There is also no blanket answer for 15 years of play as answers may vary game to game. You're basically talking about a single, random game that derailed a season. 

[notthatbluestuff]

1 minute ago, Forge said:

Young went to one. Marino. Brees. Moon went to 0. Fouts. Rivers.

While Rodgers going to one may be underwhelming, I'm also not sure it's outside the range of typical random variance either. 

There is also no blanket answer for 15 years of play as answers may very game to game 

I know Young's reasons (health, Cowboys), I know Brees's reasons (defense). Were Moon, Fouts, and Rivers really as talented as Rodgers?

[StatKing]

A lot of luck and better teams. People are going to be saying the same thing about Mahomes and Allen in a decade.