Why couldn't Rodgers be even slightly as successful as Brady?

[iknowcool]

3 minutes ago, notthatbluestuff said:

Scoring more than 28 points isn't and shouldn't be an insurmountable challenge for one of the best QBs ever.

Why do you keep repeating this, rather than answering the question?

[notthatbluestuff]

5 minutes ago, iknowcool said:

I feel like you are being intentionally argumentative, which is fine.  But surely you can see the difficulties it presents a QB when his team is giving up the point totals that the Packers gave up.  The playoffs aren't the regular season.  Putting up 28+ points isn't nearly as easy.  Especially when 2 of the games were 37 and 44 points.  What is your logic for pinning those games on Rodgers?

I'm not pinning them on Rodgers - I asked in the OP if we should chalk his team's failings up to defense, coaching, his teammates, the opposition, Rodgers himself, a combination of them all - all are possible answers people can draw from.

[StatKing]

4 minutes ago, notthatbluestuff said:

I'm not saying that what Mahomes has done is necessarily more impressive - I just find it interesting that failing at the championship game stage has been a consistent theme for Rodgers. Whatever the reasons were (his defenses, the bad coaching etc) were, it's strange how they never stopped him from getting to the NFC title game. Especially since in the LaFleur era, general consensus is that defense and coaching largely hasn't been a problem. 

Just a lot of unlucky things my guy. 2014 NFC Championship we were one dropped onside kick away from going to another Super Bowl. 2016 our defense was abysmal and our offense fumbled the ball on like their first 3 possessions and 2019 the Niners ran for like 300 yards on us. Rodgers was disappointing last year but for the most part he has not been the problem.

[notthatbluestuff]

2 minutes ago, iknowcool said:

Why do you keep repeating this, rather than answering the question?

I gave that as my initial answer and you repeated your question. Therefore, I repeated my answer.

[iknowcool]

Just now, notthatbluestuff said:

I'm not saying Rodgers is less capable than Eli of anything, and I only mentioned Mahomes because someone claimed we'll be saying the same thing about him in a decade (why would we do that?). - I'm simply asking what we can point to, looking back on Rodgers' career, as the most common denominator in his failed attempts to return to the Super Bowl. The answer you're putting forward is defense and luck - that's interesting to me. That's certainly a possible answer in this discussion.

So you agree then that the number of Super Bowls you appear in doesn't necessarily make one better than the other 

Rodgers has certainly underperformed at times, sure, but we're talking about a guy who in 22 games, has thrown 45 TDs (4 rushing TDs, 49 total) to 13 INTs and a 100 QB rating.  So if we agree that the number of appearances doesn't say all that much about the QB and then we see the numbers Rodgers has put up, it seems like the next step would be to conclude that there were plenty of factors outside of Rodgers that prevented him from making it back to the big game.  

[Forge]

36 minutes ago, notthatbluestuff said:

I know Young's reasons (health, Cowboys), I know Brees's reasons (defense). Were Moon, Fouts, and Rivers really as talented as Rodgers?

Talent evaluation is subjective. Do I think they are as talented? Probably not, though adjusting for era and competition, I don't know why they aren't relevant comps.  if you're going to limit it to top 10ish QBs, the sample is probably too limited to be meaningful (especially if you put Brees, Marino and young in the top 10 along with Rodgers... That means 40% of your top ten didn't make more than one, so it's almost normal). 

Fouts and moon are hall of Fame QBs and I suspect rivers gets there eventually.

But again, there's just a lot of random. Does Kaepernick crush that nfccg if it's played in 2015 and the league has had 3-4 years working against the zone read? His 2019 and 2020 teams were flat out not as good as the niners and bucs. 

It's still hard to win, and it's very difficult to win against good teams. There are what, 5 active QBs with winning records against winning teams?  Even if you expected Rodgers to have a .600 winning percentage in the playoffs (which a lot of great QBs don't have) you'd only win a super bowl 13-22% of the time (depending on number of games played)

I'd agree that it's been an underwhelming return for Rodgers, but again, not so low that I think it's outside of the normal range of acceptable variance

[iknowcool]

7 minutes ago, notthatbluestuff said:

I gave that as my initial answer and you repeated your question. Therefore, I repeated my answer.

How does providing an answer that clearly makes no attempt at answering the question make any sense?

[notthatbluestuff]

1 minute ago, iknowcool said:

So you agree then that the number of Super Bowls you appear in doesn't necessarily make one better than the other 

Rodgers has certainly underperformed at times, sure, but we're talking about a guy who in 22 games, has thrown 45 TDs (4 rushing TDs, 49 total) to 13 INTs and a 100 QB rating.  So if we agree that the number of appearances doesn't say all that much about the QB and then we see the numbers Rodgers has put up, it seems like the next step would be to conclude that there were plenty of factors outside of Rodgers that prevented him from making it back to the big game.  

Of course I agree with the bolded. 

As to the second bolded - what were those factors, usually? The point of my thread isn't to attack Rodgers (though it may seem like it is) - I'm genuinely curious. If it's luck, then considering Rodgers' immense talent, he's gotta be considered pretty damn unlucky, no?

[iknowcool]

2 minutes ago, notthatbluestuff said:

Of course I agree with the bolded. 

As to the second bolded - what were those factors, usually? The point of my thread isn't to attack Rodgers (though it may seem like it is) - I'm genuinely curious. If it's luck, then considering Rodgers' immense talent, he's gotta be considered pretty damn unlucky, no?

Plenty of people have given you the factors.

What do you think are the reasons Rodgers hasn't been to more Super Bowls?

Edited September 24, 2022 by iknowcool

[notthatbluestuff]

13 minutes ago, iknowcool said:

How does providing an answer that clearly makes no attempt at answering the question make any sense?

Alright, you want an answer. Okay, from memory, Brady's teams allowed 28 or more points in two conference championship games (you said conference games, I assume you meant conference championships yes?) - he won one of them (Chiefs 2018). He lost to Peyton's Colts in 2006. Were there more? I'm actually asking.

I still don't agree with the point of your question - scoring more than 28 points isn't an insurmountable challenge for one of the greatest QBs ever (especially because Brady's team DID score more than 28 points in the above game they lost). I believe Rodgers' teams scored 22, 21, 20, and 26 points in those losing NFC title game efforts. You're acting as though he kept losing 48-45 shootouts or something.

Edit: I stupidly put forward the 2020 Packers game as an example of a game where Brady's team allowed 28 points despite then listing it as a game where the Packers scored 26 points. That was dumb - holding my hands up on that one.

Edited September 24, 2022 by notthatbluestuff

[notthatbluestuff]

1 minute ago, iknowcool said:

Plenty of people have given you the factors.

They certainly have, and I'm grateful for the feedback.

[squire12]

29 minutes ago, notthatbluestuff said:

I'm looking at GB's defenses from the 2020 and 2021 seasons - seem pretty good to me.

Why ask a career based question, then select 2 years of 16?

 

Agenda perhaps?

[TecmoSuperJoe]

45 minutes ago, DontTazeMeBro said:

I’m not going to say it has nothing to do with the QBs themselves. Brady’s work ethic and preparation seem to be unmatched. 
 

But mostly it’s Mike McCarthy is a dope and most of those Green Bay teams were soft and not built for the weather they play in.

 

I feel like this always gets turned into a big fish story. Even with Jerry Rice. Because how would you know unless you were there? Seems like whenever some athlete or coach is seen as the most successful, there is a contingent of people that whittle it down to them simply clocking in more hours than anyone else...as if no one else ever thought of that before. When in reality it could be a combination of things. You'd literally have to follow every receiver or QB in Brady's case and document their day to day schedules for comparison. There could be some whatever QB putting in the same amount of prep time, but they just aren't that talented, and as a result don't see the field, or is just a middling starter. Didn't Brady just leave training camp this summer to go appear on The Masked Singer or do some cosmetic stunt with his face? 

Edited September 24, 2022 by TecmoSuperJoe

[notthatbluestuff]

3 minutes ago, squire12 said:

Why ask a career based question, then select 2 years of 16?

 

Agenda perhaps?

What agenda? I'm responding to the suggestion that Rodgers' teams have always been plagued by porous defenses by putting forward some examples where they weren't.

Is that your answer then? Defenses? Because that's definitely a valid answer to the question at hand - I'm simply interested in exploring the discussion a little.

[iknowcool]

11 minutes ago, notthatbluestuff said:

I still don't agree with the point of your question - scoring more than 28 points isn't an insurmountable challenge for one of the greatest QBs ever (especially because Brady's team DID score more than 28 points in the above game they lost). I believe Rodgers' teams scored 22, 21, 20, and 26 points in those losing NFC title game efforts. You're acting as though he kept losing 48-45 shootouts or something.

So why do you think Rodgers hasn't been to more Super Bowls?  What are your factors/reasons?

It would be easier to respond if everyone knew what you believed in.  Every reason people give you, you keep refuting.  So do you think Rodgers has simply underperformed and is the reason the Packers haven't been back?