Why couldn't Rodgers be even slightly as successful as Brady?

[DontTazeMeBro]

I’m not going to say it has nothing to do with the QBs themselves. Brady’s work ethic and preparation seem to be unmatched. 
 

But mostly it’s Mike McCarthy is a dope and most of those Green Bay teams were soft and not built for the weather they play in.

 

[notthatbluestuff]

1 minute ago, StatKing said:

A lot of luck and better teams. People are going to be saying the same thing about Mahomes and Allen in a decade.

Even Mahomes has been to more Super Bowls in four years than Rodgers managed in his entire career, though. Mahomes in 2019 and 2020 was on a better team than Rodgers in 2020 or 2021?

[iknowcool]

16 minutes ago, notthatbluestuff said:

Put this another way since I don't think I'm making myself clear - Rodgers to my memory lost 4 NFC title games. Maybe more? Winning wasn't too hard until that point, then it became too hard. What was it specifically that has most commonly foiled Rodgers at the last hurdle? Coaching? The quality of the opposition? The quality of his teammates? Himself?

Packers gave up 31 points in the 2020 NFC game. 37 points in the 2019 game. 44 points in the 2016 game. 28 points in the 2014 game... although that game certainly falls more on Rodgers' shoulders than the rest.

How many conference games did Brady win when his team gave up 28+ points? 

[StatKing]

13 minutes ago, notthatbluestuff said:

That's just being needlessly pedantic - going back to your original question of why I'm choosing to compare Rodgers and Brady, if I change my answer to "because their teams are playing against each other tomorrow" then what does that change? Nothing. Regardless, that wasn't the only basis of my question.

Thanks - this is more of an attempt to answer the question at hand. Brady makes up for it in what ways? "It's a team game" - it certainly is, and Rodgers' teams have been #1 seeds on numerous occasions. Did they all lose because they bad defenses?

Packers would have made the Super Bowl in 2014 if Brandon Bostick didnt drop an onside kick that hit him right in the hands.

[squire12]

Look at the defenses the respective teams had.

The phrase .... " defenses win championships" ..... exists, and has some notable merit.

[notthatbluestuff]

Just now, iknowcool said:

Packers gave up 31 points in the 2020 NFC game. 37 points in the 2019 game. 44 points in the 2016 game. 28 points in the 2014 game... although that game certainly falls more on Rodgers' shoulders than the rest.

How many conference games did Brady win when his team gave up 28+ points? 

Scoring more than 28 points isn't and shouldn't be an insurmountable challenge for one of the best QBs ever. 

[notthatbluestuff]

5 minutes ago, squire12 said:

Look at the defenses the respective teams had.

The phrase .... " defenses win championships" ..... exists, and has some notable merit.

I'm looking at GB's defenses from the 2020 and 2021 seasons - seem pretty good to me.

[y*so*blu]

Brady expects to win and hates losing as much as any player I've seen. That has been consistent. But in other ways he has changed dramatically as a person since his early career. He works harder, thinks more, and takes care of his body to the point of obsession. He's basically nuts, but in a way that commands respect.

Rodgers doesn't have that.  Although he's as talented as Brady in most respects and frankly a superior athlete, he isn't crazy, and has not undergone the same changes. Like most people he works as hard as he needs to, and there's a point at which he throws up his hands and moves on, rather than beat himself up for things that are partly beyond his control. Ironically he might be a happier person than Brady because of this.

Until January, that is.

Edited September 24, 2022 by y*so*blu

[StatKing]

6 minutes ago, notthatbluestuff said:

Even Mahomes has been to more Super Bowls in four years than Rodgers managed in his entire career, though. Mahomes in 2019 and 2020 was on a better team than Rodgers in 2020 or 2021?

Yes, those Chiefs teams were better. Mahomes had two hall of fame weapons and a hall of fame coach plus a very good defense. At the end of the day they have the same amount of rings so I don't really understand what the difference is. Would Rodgers getting blown out in a Super Bowl instead of being blown out in a championship game be more impressive just because he made it?

[iknowcool]

1 minute ago, notthatbluestuff said:

Even Mahomes has been to more Super Bowls in four years than Rodgers managed in his entire career, though. 

Eli Manning also made it to more Super Bowls in a 5-year stretch than Rodgers has his entire career. 

What is the takeaway you are drawing from these facts?  That Rodgers has been less capable than those two at getting a team to a Super Bowl?  And if that isn't the takeaway, then surely you see and agree that there are far, far, far bigger factors outside of Brady (or any QB, really) that drive a team to the big game? 

Brady is the GOAT, but he also didn't have to deal with his defense giving up 28+ points often in the postseason. He had the best coach of all-time, at least of the salary cap era.  Brady went 9 years without winning one, then he got another GOAT to play with, Rob Gronkowski.  

But most importantly... a lot of luck.  It ain't like the Patriots won those Super Bowls in dominant fashion.  Falcons and Seahawks fumbled the bag.  They scored 13 points in the 2018 game.  Do you think Rodgers could have won a Super Bowl scoring 13 points, given what we saw over the years from McCarthy and the Packers defense? 

[iknowcool]

8 minutes ago, notthatbluestuff said:

Scoring more than 28 points isn't and shouldn't be an insurmountable challenge for one of the best QBs ever. 

So answer the question. How many conference championship games did Brady win when his team gave up more than 28 points? 

I feel like you are being intentionally argumentative, which is fine.  But surely you can see the difficulties it presents a QB when his team is giving up the point totals that the Packers gave up.  The playoffs aren't the regular season.  Putting up 28+ points isn't nearly as easy.  Especially when 2 of the games were 37 and 44 points.  What is your logic for pinning those games on Rodgers?

Edited September 24, 2022 by iknowcool

[notthatbluestuff]

Just now, StatKing said:

Yes, those Chiefs teams were better. Mahomes had two hall of fame weapons and a hall of fame coach plus a very good defense. At the end of the day they have the same amount of rings so I don't really understand what the difference is. Would Rodgers getting blown out in a Super Bowl instead of being blown out in a championship game be more impressive just because he made it?

I'm not saying that what Mahomes has done is necessarily more impressive - I just find it interesting that failing at the championship game stage has been a consistent theme for Rodgers. Whatever the reasons were (his defenses, the bad coaching etc) were, it's strange how they never stopped him from getting to the NFC title game. Especially since in the LaFleur era, general consensus is that defense and coaching largely hasn't been a problem. 

[notthatbluestuff]

1 minute ago, iknowcool said:

How many conference championship games did Brady win when his team gave up more than 28 points? 

Scoring more than 28 points isn't and shouldn't be an insurmountable challenge for one of the best QBs ever.

[iknowcool]

8 minutes ago, notthatbluestuff said:

I'm looking at GB's defenses from the 2020 and 2021 seasons - seem pretty good to me.

And yet, the Bucs had already scored 28 points before the halfway mark of the 3rd quarter.

[notthatbluestuff]

2 minutes ago, iknowcool said:

Eli Manning also made it to more Super Bowls in a 5-year stretch than Rodgers has his entire career. 

What is the takeaway you are drawing from these facts?  That Rodgers has been less capable than those two at getting a team to a Super Bowl?  And if that isn't the takeaway, then surely you see and agree that there are far, far, far bigger factors outside of Brady (or any QB, really) that drive a team to the big game? 

Brady is the GOAT, but he also didn't have to deal with his defense giving up 28+ points often in the postseason. He had the best coach of all-time, at least of the salary cap era.  Brady went 9 years without winning one, then he got another GOAT to play with, Rob Gronkowski.  

But most importantly... a lot of luck.  It ain't like the Patriots won those Super Bowls in dominant fashion.  Falcons and Seahawks fumbled the bag.  They scored 13 points in the 2018 game.  Do you think Rodgers could have won a Super Bowl scoring 13 points, given what we saw over the years from McCarthy and the Packers defense? 

I'm not saying Rodgers is less capable than Eli of anything, and I only mentioned Mahomes because someone claimed we'll be saying the same thing about him in a decade (why would we do that?). - I'm simply asking what we can point to, looking back on Rodgers' career, as the most common denominator in his failed attempts to return to the Super Bowl. The answer you're putting forward is defense and luck - that's interesting to me. That's certainly a possible answer in this discussion.