State of the Steelers

[warfelg]

3 minutes ago, MOSteelers56 said:

The other side of that is that $15 is probably what CBs are going to be getting from here on. We have to have a stable of good CBs, so I don't want to let one get out. Especially since we developed him. If we let Sutton go, we have to bring in 2 CBs. Which, with our development record with CBs, is far from a guarantee success. 

On the flip side it’s gonna be hard to get a DL that can contribute enough through the draft, where I feel finding a CB will be far easier. 
 

 

[MOSteelers56]

3 minutes ago, warfelg said:

On the flip side it’s gonna be hard to get a DL that can contribute enough through the draft, where I feel finding a CB will be far easier. 
 

 

I think it would be easier to find 1 DT than it would be to find 2 CBs, though. 

[warfelg]

6 minutes ago, MOSteelers56 said:

I think it would be easier to find 1 DT than it would be to find 2 CBs, though. 

I honestly disagree. I think a CB3 can be found via FA cheaper, and a new CB1/2 with a higher ceiling can be found via the draft.

 

I would like to keep Sutton FWIW. This isn’t a knock on him or anything like that. I just feel he’s a really nice CB2 who’s about to get CB1 money and I wouldn’t do that. I think @armsteeld asked a great question here that isn’t as cut and try easy as some are answering it. 

[bigben07MVP]

1 hour ago, MOSteelers56 said:

I honestly was a little underwhelmed with Larry O. He was a good player, but he was kind of just there a lot. He'd make a fine rotational DT, but I'd rather have someone better starting. 

He started playing a lot better when Watt came back from injury (you could say the same for half the defense). I guess you could take that as a positive or a negative.

[bigben07MVP]

47 minutes ago, AFF said:

For a team that failed to develop DB talent numerous times, it wouldn’t be the best decision to let go of one of the few that DID work out, leave in FA.

You have nothing behind Sutton besides Wallace and he’s in his final year of deal…Pierre seems to be depth at best and is also a FA along with the dead weight of WJIII and Witherspoon.

You save roughly $16 mill in cutting those 2…you can resign Sutton with a decent year 1 cap hit and still have enough to sign a rotation DL for depth.

This is the correct answer.

[3rivers]

7 hours ago, MOSteelers56 said:

I honestly was a little underwhelmed with Larry O. He was a good player, but he was kind of just there a lot. He'd make a fine rotational DT, but I'd rather have someone better starting. 

he wasn't Tuitt.2 but he was much better than wormley and loudermilk which in recent time became the standard as tomlin calls it around here.  They couold probbaly get a decent player in RD3 or a vet in UFA (Suh for example) that would be comparable.  

CB though, Sutton has familiarity and versatility that might not be as easily obtained.  Just keep Sutton AND get a CB #17 or #32 and be set for a while

[3rivers]

7 hours ago, warfelg said:

I honestly disagree. I think a CB3 can be found via FA cheaper, and a new CB1/2 with a higher ceiling can be found via the draft.

 

I would like to keep Sutton FWIW. This isn’t a knock on him or anything like that. I just feel he’s a really nice CB2 who’s about to get CB1 money and I wouldn’t do that. I think @armsteeld asked a great question here that isn’t as cut and try easy as some are answering it. 

what is CB1 money?

If sutton gets more than 8M and leaves then it's time to get another UFA CB or at least get CB with #17 to start.  

 

[AFF]

18 minutes ago, 3rivers said:

what is CB1 money?

If sutton gets more than 8M and leaves then it's time to get another UFA CB or at least get CB with #17 to start.  

 

His rough value on FA market is probably somewhere between $10-$15 mill avg per year

[3rivers]

38 minutes ago, AFF said:

His rough value on FA market is probably somewhere between $10-$15 mill avg per year

spotrc had previously estimated his market value around $8m. 

If he gets offer for 15M, then move on and #17 will be a CB and maybe see what UFA has for CB as well.  I like Sutton but with the cap situation as it is, this could be the breaking point . 

What is the upper limit you expect the steelers to offer Sutton?

 

[armsteeld]

Let's say Sutton is $15 million...I like Sutton buy feel he isn't an outside CB. I think he is a better Slot vs Field/Boundary CB. For Sutton's price, I could get a combined of Byron Murphy, Sean Murphy-Bunting, and/or Kris Boyd. They are all young athletic and proven to a degree. Or go big and get Ramsey or Dean for around the same price or a lil more. 

Steelers don't have a CB on their roster who can stick with Amari Cooper or Jamar Chase. WJIII will more than likely get cut and possibly re-sign but you never know. 

[3rivers]

1 hour ago, armsteeld said:

Let's say Sutton is $15 million...I like Sutton buy feel he isn't an outside CB. I think he is a better Slot vs Field/Boundary CB. For Sutton's price, I could get a combined of Byron Murphy, Sean Murphy-Bunting, and/or Kris Boyd. They are all young athletic and proven to a degree. Or go big and get Ramsey or Dean for around the same price or a lil more. 

Steelers don't have a CB on their roster who can stick with Amari Cooper or Jamar Chase. WJIII will more than likely get cut and possibly re-sign but you never know. 

The Ramsey rumours were a cap issue - not much left if they get him under the current deal he has. If they traded for him, could they restructure his deal and cut the cap figure down quite a bit ?

Ideally a trade for Ramsey  with dionte involved, then still get CB2 at #32

what was colbert and the FO thinkng when they traded for Jackson though? This has to be one of the more bizarre trades and I can't even recall if he played a down in a game of all things. Total waste and now consider the cap issue from that trade, just terrible

[43M]

1 hour ago, armsteeld said:

Let's say Sutton is $15 million...I like Sutton buy feel he isn't an outside CB. I think he is a better Slot vs Field/Boundary CB. For Sutton's price, I could get a combined of Byron Murphy, Sean Murphy-Bunting, and/or Kris Boyd. They are all young athletic and proven to a degree. Or go big and get Ramsey or Dean for around the same price or a lil more. 

Steelers don't have a CB on their roster who can stick with Amari Cooper or Jamar Chase. WJIII will more than likely get cut and possibly re-sign but you never know. 

I agree I wouldn't pay top dollar for Sutton, but at the same time worry about losing him because we struggle finding CBs.

If we do lose Sutton, I feel like we absolutely have to replace him with another decent vet.   I dont think it would be wise to expect two rookies to come in and have immediate success,especially given the Tomlin era track record with CBs.

[warfelg]

1 hour ago, armsteeld said:

Let's say Sutton is $15 million...I like Sutton buy feel he isn't an outside CB. I think he is a better Slot vs Field/Boundary CB. For Sutton's price, I could get a combined of Byron Murphy, Sean Murphy-Bunting, and/or Kris Boyd. They are all young athletic and proven to a degree. Or go big and get Ramsey or Dean for around the same price or a lil more. 

Steelers don't have a CB on their roster who can stick with Amari Cooper or Jamar Chase. WJIII will more than likely get cut and possibly re-sign but you never know. 

I mean, I'll say I look at your question this way:

Would you rather spend $15mil AAV on Sutton, lose out on Terrell Edmunds and Ogunjobi and get Ryan Neal and DeMarcus Walker, and have the first 3 picks go OL, DL, S or spend $8mil AAV on Larry Ogunjobi, retain Terrell Edmunds, sign Rock Ya-Sin while losing Sutton and going OL, CB, ILB in the first 3 picks.

The first gives you 2 starters (Sutton and the S) and 4 backup quality (Neal, Walker, OL, DL).  The second changes the allocation of spending, but takes the same amount, and you can have 4 starters (Ogunjobi, Edmunds, Ya-Sin, ILB) and 2 backups (OL, CB).  This is especially right away.

[warfelg]

13 minutes ago, 43M said:

I agree I wouldn't pay top dollar for Sutton, but at the same time worry about losing him because we struggle finding CBs.

If we do lose Sutton, I feel like we absolutely have to replace him with another decent vet.   I dont think it would be wise to expect two rookies to come in and have immediate success,especially given the Tomlin era track record with CBs.

Agreed.  

 

BUT

Moseley, Bradberry, Dean are all guys who can give better lockdown against top WR's and cost the same. Murphy, Ya-Sin, Flowers are guys who can give you similar production at a lesser cost than Sutton.

 

Edit: I didn’t finish my thought. I would sign one of those guys to a short term high value deal and draft a CB at the same time. 

Edited February 22, 2023 by warfelg

[43M]

2 minutes ago, warfelg said:

Agreed.  

 

BUT

Moseley, Bradberry, Dean are all guys who can give better lockdown against top WR's and cost the same. Murphy, Ya-Sin, Flowers are guys who can give you similar production at a lesser cost than Sutton.

I guess we will see just how much the Steelers value Sutton.   They obviously like him, but enough to give him CB1 money?   

I personally dont view him as a CB1 caliber player.   We havent had one of them since Woodson IMO (some will say Ike Taylor, and Ill just leave it at "I disagree").   This team either needs a true top CB or a front 7 capable of creating constant pressure ala late 2000's Steelers.