State of the Steelers

[Dcash4]

5 minutes ago, MOSteelers56 said:

It depends on who we're looking at. I don't think we can find an OT or a CB in the later rounds that have the potential of Wright or Witherspoon/Gonzo. Maybe Dawand Jones later fills in for Wright, but his weight is scary. 

Absolutely it depends, but it feels like there are guys that are similar prospects available where we stand. For the two positions mentioned being the two that are talked about for trade up most:

- Is Paris Johnson or Broderick Jones worth pick 49 instead of waiting and getting Wright, Harrison, or Dawan? 

- Are Witherspoon or Gonzalez a top 50 pick better than Porter, Banks, or Forbes?

Fairly unique for us to have 3 top 50 picks and it's a draft I think we could land 3 nice players. I am just not sure there is anyone in this draft worth losing one of those pieces. 

[MOSteelers56]

2 minutes ago, Dcash4 said:

Absolutely it depends, but it feels like there are guys that are similar prospects available where we stand. For the two positions mentioned being the two that are talked about for trade up most:

- Is Paris Johnson or Broderick Jones worth pick 49 instead of waiting and getting Wright, Harrison, or Dawan? 

- Are Witherspoon or Gonzalez a top 50 pick better than Porter, Banks, or Forbes?

Fairly unique for us to have 3 top 50 picks and it's a draft I think we could land 3 nice players. I am just not sure there is anyone in this draft worth losing one of those pieces. 

I feel that. I would also hesitate to trade up unless it was the proposed DJ+49 for a top 12 pick. We'd still have 3 picks in the top 50 and could potentially get a shot at a real blue chip guy. 

[warfelg]

4 minutes ago, Dcash4 said:

Absolutely it depends, but it feels like there are guys that are similar prospects available where we stand. For the two positions mentioned being the two that are talked about for trade up most:

- Is Paris Johnson or Broderick Jones worth pick 49 instead of waiting and getting Wright, Harrison, or Dawan? 

- Are Witherspoon or Gonzalez a top 50 pick better than Porter, Banks, or Forbes?

Fairly unique for us to have 3 top 50 picks and it's a draft I think we could land 3 nice players. I am just not sure there is anyone in this draft worth losing one of those pieces. 

For the record the answer to the first question for me is a resounding yes. 
 

For the second one - for Porter no, for Banks yes, and for Forbes easily. 

[bigben07MVP]

29 minutes ago, MOSteelers56 said:

I feel that. I would also hesitate to trade up unless it was the proposed DJ+49 for a top 12 pick. We'd still have 3 picks in the top 50 and could potentially get a shot at a real blue chip guy. 

3 picks in the top 32*

I’m not a fan of trading DJ for reasons mentioned but if the Texans want him that bad and we have 3 top 32 picks I think you have to pull the trigger on value alone. 

I would absolutely want to take a WR high to replace him though. I do not want Allen Robinson and Pickens as our top 2 boundary receivers. Maybe Kahn is doing all this with the idea of taking Addison…

[bigben07MVP]

Big fan of A Rob rocking #11

[3rivers]

2 hours ago, MOSteelers56 said:

I don't think this team has as many dire needs as you keep stating @3rivers

We need talent at CB and OT, but neither of them are immediate needs. We need ILB, but we could also get by with our current guys and ILB is not a blue chip position and can be had later, EDGE depth, TE depth, WR depth, IOL depth are all just depth needs. I think we're actually in a pretty good spot to trade up for blue chip guys. If we can come away with a guy like Wright and someone like Banks, JPJ, or Forbes, we'll be in a really good position. We can add depth at SS, ILB, TE, WR, IOL, QB later in the draft or FA. 

there are needs, then immediate needs. The problem with immediate needs is the team might have to get desperate, reach, overpay and then hope it works immediately . I would prefer to get players now(when feasible) and make sure they are suitable and good for next year. 

I am expecting our ILB's to be much better and like how the FO fixed this or tried to. Colbert would have kept his players, much easier for him.   Henley is the ILB I would prefer , maybe take a chance on someone else later on, but thats it for  me  and ILB in the draft.

Right now dotson and green wouldn't be on the team ,  yet with colbert you know they would be and doston would start. Khan went out and upgraded the IOL and I expect both dotson and green to be gone instead of them being allowed to run their contracts out like colbert era Steelers

trade down and get more good picks and have quality depth in much of the roster does have advantages  The other way could work too IF the OT does live up to the hype and the team stays really healthy.  It's a bit of a risk, but thats the draft as we have seen over the years .  We saw what happened with TJ out, what if Minkah or Patrick or both  get injured this year ? Or Highsmith, or  Cole or Pickens especially if dionte is gone?  We have overpaid mitch in case KP is out, but that never worked either last year so why would we think it will this year? 

[3rivers]

14 minutes ago, bigben07MVP said:

3 picks in the top 32*

I’m not a fan of trading DJ for reasons mentioned but if the Texans want him that bad and we have 3 top 32 picks I think you have to pull the trigger on value alone. 

I would absolutely want to take a WR high to replace him though. I do not want Allen Robinson and Pickens as our top 2 boundary receivers. Maybe Kahn is doing all this with the idea of taking Addison…

the Addison part would be a colbert move. It could happen and be good for the team, KP sure won't complain will he.  

We might get a WR in RD1 which at one time would have  been really annoying.  However, with Khan signing IOL and ILB (and as mentioned here trading dionte) , it makes the idea of WR early actually make sense . 5th year option for high cap cost position is a good idea.

BFW could be a pick later (had visit)  for the boundary if A-Rob  goes to the slot sometimes. Mingo might go earlier than expected.  With the mediocre combine Addison had, could we trade down from 17 to say 25  or so and get him there?

[MOSteelers56]

24 minutes ago, bigben07MVP said:

Big fan of A Rob rocking #11

Hopefully he'll be better than our last couple of #11's. 

[Dcash4]

29 minutes ago, warfelg said:

For the record the answer to the first question for me is a resounding yes. 
 

For the second one - for Porter no, for Banks yes, and for Forbes easily. 

OT is the one I probably feel the most strongly about not want to trade up for. Dane Brugler and Brandon Thorn were on a pod talking prospects and neither think there is an elite talent or that the gap between top and the cluster of guys to follow is big. 

IMO, you can get a good tackle prospect from the teens through the early 2nd, but I don't think there is an elite one. So I'm not overdrafting for that value. I don't think it's worth it. 

Corner, I would be much more open to it, especially for Witherspoon. 

It all comes down to value. I see the value in this draft is back, not up. So moving up, IMO, is going to lose us value -- even if we select a good player. I think we are better staying put or moving back than we are moving up. 

[3rivers]

2 hours ago, Dcash4 said:

Absolutely it depends, but it feels like there are guys that are similar prospects available where we stand. For the two positions mentioned being the two that are talked about for trade up most:

- Is Paris Johnson or Broderick Jones worth pick 49 instead of waiting and getting Wright, Harrison, or Dawan? 

- Are Witherspoon or Gonzalez a top 50 pick better than Porter, Banks, or Forbes?

Fairly unique for us to have 3 top 50 picks and it's a draft I think we could land 3 nice players. I am just not sure there is anyone in this draft worth losing one of those pieces. 

and we might have more than 3 picks in the top 50 .

This is where it gets us to look at the entire team and the end result instead of individual efforts.   We have no way of knowing if highly ranked CB is that much better and his effect on the team would be better than say Turner  plus a RD2 pick that was acquired.   The resulting RD2  pick could be better than both, something to consider despite the many fails of RD2 in the past . This applies to us  mainly when considering injuries such as last year. If  we  had a really good reserve Edge last year, it might have been better. But this year, the better CB might be, so there is a chance whats better now might not be next year  etc.

Scheme fit is important for these CB's too.  Some say Forbes is more for off man and zones, not for press. Others say Porter is for press only.  Banks can do both so they say. Devon might lack long speed.   Will the DC adjust scheme to suit the player?

3 top 50 picks could get really interesting if we move up to 12, and yet the 2 OT candidates get stolen before we pick. Then trade back down and see what we get, especially if they want slot / Addison who should be there later  anyways.  Maybe Kiper was correct saying we take Flowers  

If they are so set on Broderick or Paris  and they are gone before 12, then trade 12 for a nice haul, and maybe trade down twice with those depending on who you want and whats going on with the draft. Weidl will have some work here and I am sure he will put in the effort instead of being lazy.  Then see if the Jets will trade Becton and let Khan work his magic there. Maybe he can add mitch to the trade of all things .   Still would like Bergeron to be drafted  and he is a later pick . 

They say Broderick has issues in pass pro (and thats vs NCAA just imagine NFL) , so how does this help KP?  From that view, it's not an upgrade overall . In the run game sure,  but I thought they wanted to build the Pickett fence .  That leave Paris, and I doubt he is there at 12 but worth a try I guess.  If gone, I expect a nice refund for the 12 pick by trading down yet getting the WR in the process.  Get a WR later like Mingo or BFW and be set at WR, look out.

[Squanchy]

That rumor seems absolutely bat **** insane to me.   I’ll take it if true. 

[warfelg]

20 hours ago, Dcash4 said:

Dane Brugler and Brandon Thorn were on a pod talking prospects and neither think there is an elite talent or that the gap between top and the cluster of guys to follow is big. 

 

They’re a decent duo. I’m a big Duke Manyweather fan. His take is the top three have the highest floors because they come in with something elite. The next 4 can all come in at RT immediately but need coaching. Beyond that he said it’s all traits but lots of bad that needs to be coached out. 
 

His opinion seems to me PJJ offer elite athleticism and balance not seen for a while. Skoronski has a very technically sound game and will be Slater like. And Jones takes out anything in his way and was the player all of Georgia's run plays have been designed around. 
 

He has questioned why Dawand Jones got moved if he was as “good” at LT as claimed. Wrights insistence on staying at RT should tell you there’s something at that spot he finds comfortable. Harrison isn’t aggressive at all and lets guys come to him. And Bergeron played in such a run heavy offense that his pass blocking is a relative unknown. 

[MOSteelers56]

17 minutes ago, warfelg said:

He has questioned why Dawand Jones got moved if he was as “good” at LT as claimed.

My assumption was always that Paris Johnson was just better at LT than him and he finally stepped up to take the spot. But that's just an assumption from someone who hasn't looked into it at all. 

[warfelg]

27 minutes ago, MOSteelers56 said:

My assumption was always that Paris Johnson was just better at LT than him and he finally stepped up to take the spot. But that's just an assumption from someone who hasn't looked into it at all. 

The thinking tends to go like this (and why I think it’s a big deal):

In college is PJJ isn’t a perfect RT it’s usually ok to keep him there because he’s still better. So for PJJ to be the “younger” (they’re both 21) of the two but take over LT from DJones his senior year (Jones) is not good for Jones. Even more problematic that he got moved in favor of an underclassman moving from RG to LT. 
 

The best case here is PJJ is just better right? Well DJones goes from a 3rd rounder at a LT to suddenly top half of the 1st potentially from the RT spot and people think he will go back to LT and be better?

And anymore RT is almost as important as LT. You used to want to blindside rush so the QB couldn’t see it coming. Now you want your best pass rusher coming from the front side to try to force the QB to roll out throwing across their body. So slower and lumbering Jones might not be great their either. 

[jebrick]

1 hour ago, warfelg said:

He has questioned why Dawand Jones got moved if he was as “good” at LT as claimed. Wrights insistence on staying at RT should tell you there’s something at that spot he finds comfortable. Harrison isn’t aggressive at all and lets guys come to him. And Bergeron played in such a run heavy offense that his pass blocking is a relative unknown. 

Perhaps Paris Johnson could not play RT.  Wright said he preferred RT.  I would rather get a player that could go in either tackle slot.