warfelg Posted April 5 Author Share Posted April 5 That post is very projection-y of all the issues with Colbert many had put onto Khan who's had 2 FA classes and 1 draft to fix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFF Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 1 hour ago, warfelg said: C, RT, and what? Watkins and Austin offer the ability to take the top off, but yes I get that neither of them have proven the full ability to do it. Pickens can be a really good chain moving WR, has shown he can, he needs to be much more consistent at it. Freiermuth is a seam controlling TE, needs to stay healthy to keep that moving the right way. My thought is that I can see what the vision is. Of a run the ball offense that takes big shots downfield that opens up the other passing options. FWIW I'm not saying that I think everything is perfect and ready to go. Just I can see what the vision is. I know we've got plenty of issues to still work through. Plenty of spots to fill. I'm not even going to care to defend that because it's not my opinion. Just because someone thinks they understand what the vision is doesn't mean we think it's "good to go". Personally I think that there's still options out there for some of these positions of need. I posted this list yesterday of some players I think could be still potential signings, who while they don't 100% completely fix the issue at hand, they can at least short term gap you where you can play some at better positions or you can not force a pick not ready to play be out there. Like I said, almost all of these guys are more short term covers than the long term answer for us, but I wouldn't mind many of them. We're in that normal lull of the offseason post the FA wave, pre-draft, where not much happens. Some of these guys are likely to sign after visits are over or after the draft. Is it slim pickings? Absolutely. But I do think that if you were to do one of those OL guys and 1 CB, you can push those two positions down in the draft some and push other needs up. C/RT/WR2/ and TE to an extent…I don’t think they juice is worth the squeeze with Muth but you’re probably right and they’ll sign him long term this summer. Recent TE contracts put Muth around $13 mill AAV going forward. DJ was moved basically for a swap of 2024 starters with probably no long term future and a savings of $5 mill which hasn’t been used for anything long term. The “vision” is that of a ball control offense with PA down field….but that’s contingent on the defense being above average. On a side note…TJ Watt is going to be 30 this season and will Be going into last year of deal next year at age 31…next summer is going to be very interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcash4 Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 11 minutes ago, warfelg said: That post is very projection-y of all the issues with Colbert many had put onto Khan who's had 2 FA classes and 1 draft to fix. You gotta stop blaming Colbert for everything, man. This current regime cut or traded players that created holes in a roster that they didn't fill. As of 10:39 AM EST we are worse off at WR and C than we started the off-season, no better at OT, weaker on the IOL, and have no starting nickel or corner depth. Colbert didn't do any of that this off-season...we choose to ignore or were unable to secure guys to fill the gaps. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOSteelers56 Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 2 minutes ago, Dcash4 said: You gotta stop blaming Colbert for everything, man. This current regime cut or traded players that created holes in a roster that they didn't fill. As of 10:39 AM EST we are worse off at WR and C than we started the off-season, no better at OT, weaker on the IOL, and have no starting nickel or corner depth. Colbert didn't do any of that this off-season...we choose to ignore or were unable to secure guys to fill the gaps. I'm willing to see this through to the beginning of the season before I really start complaining about it. But, as it is now, I agree with this sentiment. Khan has made a lot of holes on the roster unnecessarily. I get that he's getting rid of "Colbert guys" but I have a hard time not being worried about all these roster holes going into the draft. Say what you will about Colbert, but he never operated in this manner. Maybe Khan/Weidl will stick the landing, in fact I have faith they will, but they could just as easily not. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFF Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 5 minutes ago, MOSteelers56 said: I'm willing to see this through to the beginning of the season before I really start complaining about it. But, as it is now, I agree with this sentiment. Khan has made a lot of holes on the roster unnecessarily. I get that he's getting rid of "Colbert guys" but I have a hard time not being worried about all these roster holes going into the draft. Say what you will about Colbert, but he never operated in this manner. Maybe Khan/Weidl will stick the landing, in fact I have faith they will, but they could just as easily not. That’s kinda my thing…what was accomplished this offseason. -Got rid of Colbert guys -Signed a long term ILB -Maaaaayyybbbbbeeee got a long term QB of future(I was big on him but it’s still risky) —————————————— No other long term assets were gained despite having a huge amount of cap room in the 2025 season(Overthecap has $96 mill but that’s no factoring the recent minor signings and incoming draft class) but you catch my point. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcash4 Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 3 minutes ago, MOSteelers56 said: Say what you will about Colbert, but he never operated in this manner. And that's the part that gets me is that Khan didn't last year either. It would be odd to go into year 2 doing the "old regime" tear down vs doing it in year 1. Whether I liked the signings or not last year I thought they did a good job of filling holes and then drafting talent. This year (again, as of now) has a feeling of drafting to fill holes. 7 minutes ago, MOSteelers56 said: Maybe Khan/Weidl will stick the landing, in fact I have faith they will, but they could just as easily not. I thought they absolutely nailed last off-season so I have faith in them too. It's just hard to see a plan (if there is one) this season vs last when it seemed like they had one and attacked it. 2024 feels too haphazard to me right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted April 5 Author Share Posted April 5 5 minutes ago, AFF said: C/RT/WR2/ and TE to an extent…I don’t think they juice is worth the squeeze with Muth but you’re probably right and they’ll sign him long term this summer. Recent TE contracts put Muth around $13 mill AAV going forward. Personally I wouldn't extend Muth at that because of his availability. Missing a few games a year makes me weary of that unless we have easy outs. I've got a good feeling by the end of day 2, we will feel better about 2 of C/RT/WR2. 7 minutes ago, AFF said: DJ was moved basically for a swap of 2024 starters with probably no long term future and a savings of $5 mill which hasn’t been used for anything long term. I think DJ going out is going to be addition by subtraction. But yes, I'm a big DJ detractor. 9 minutes ago, AFF said: The “vision” is that of a ball control offense with PA down field….but that’s contingent on the defense being above average. Uhhhh, it was. 3 minutes ago, MOSteelers56 said: I'm willing to see this through to the beginning of the season before I really start complaining about it. But, as it is now, I agree with this sentiment. Khan has made a lot of holes on the roster unnecessarily. I get that he's getting rid of "Colbert guys" but I have a hard time not being worried about all these roster holes going into the draft. Say what you will about Colbert, but he never operated in this manner. Maybe Khan/Weidl will stick the landing, in fact I have faith they will, but they could just as easily not. I'm not worried, but that's because I always felt this turnaround was going to take 2-3 offseasons. We have about 5 years of drafting with not much to show for it. IMO a lot of these spots that Khan created these holes are also spots where people complained about those players. In season so many people were extremely unhappy about Cole and happy when he was cut. A few people on here (myself one of them) was for trading DJ because we didn't see him here long term. Cut Peterson which was celebrated, Wallace still out there that people trashed. I think what kinda "sucked" about this offseason was FA was generally weak at some of these positions we really needed (OT, DL, CB) and it dried up fast on the ones that were worth it. I dunno - This is the way I felt about 2017/18 to 2022 offseasons. I have faith in Khan because of how well he did last offseason. I have faith because for years I've been calling for the FO to operate differently, and he's doing just that. He's not just sitting on average players because it's safe to do so. I'm willing to give this riskier strategy time before I complain at all because of those things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted April 5 Author Share Posted April 5 https://x.com/Steelersdepot/status/1776262043873751194 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFF Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 7 minutes ago, warfelg said: Personally I wouldn't extend Muth at that because of his availability. Missing a few games a year makes me weary of that unless we have easy outs. I've got a good feeling by the end of day 2, we will feel better about 2 of C/RT/WR2. I think DJ going out is going to be addition by subtraction. But yes, I'm a big DJ detractor. Uhhhh, it was. I'm not worried, but that's because I always felt this turnaround was going to take 2-3 offseasons. We have about 5 years of drafting with not much to show for it. IMO a lot of these spots that Khan created these holes are also spots where people complained about those players. In season so many people were extremely unhappy about Cole and happy when he was cut. A few people on here (myself one of them) was for trading DJ because we didn't see him here long term. Cut Peterson which was celebrated, Wallace still out there that people trashed. I think what kinda "sucked" about this offseason was FA was generally weak at some of these positions we really needed (OT, DL, CB) and it dried up fast on the ones that were worth it. I dunno - This is the way I felt about 2017/18 to 2022 offseasons. I have faith in Khan because of how well he did last offseason. I have faith because for years I've been calling for the FO to operate differently, and he's doing just that. He's not just sitting on average players because it's safe to do so. I'm willing to give this riskier strategy time before I complain at all because of those things. He’s not sitting on average players but he’s also not replacing them with better ones or being aggressive in FA(save for Queen). As @Dcash4 says and I agree with…what was the plan this offseason save for getting rid of Colbert guys? We’re going to solidify CB2 or the slot for the next few years?….no We’re going to keep plugging holes in the OL with solid vets like the last 2 years in Daniels and Seumalo?….no Im gonna get rid of the DJ headache and use his $$$ and put it towards a proven younger player long term(Aiyuk for example)…no Am I going to make the tough decision and get rid of Heyward or even at the very least sign a long term guy to replace Ogunjobi inconsistent behind?….no By the time you’ve completely redone the offense, the defense is going to going to have to replace Watt and decide if Minkah is worth a 3rd contract. To use a @43M reference…it’s like they’re spinning tires. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted April 5 Author Share Posted April 5 3 minutes ago, AFF said: what was the plan this offseason save for getting rid of Colbert guys? I really see this year as we moved on from guys who created waves in the not as good way. 6 minutes ago, AFF said: We’re going to solidify CB2 or the slot for the next few years?….no We’re going to keep plugging holes in the OL with solid vets like the last 2 years in Daniels and Seumalo?….no Im gonna get rid of the DJ headache and use his $$$ and put it towards a proven younger player long term(Aiyuk for example)…no Am I going to make the tough decision and get rid of Heyward or even at the very least sign a long term guy to replace Ogunjobi inconsistent behind?….no Why is the answer to all of these FA or trade? Why not draft? See, this is what gets me, (and I know not all of you are arguing the same point), but I've offered up that there's still plenty of vets out there to do some of this hole plugging and the response was can't find starters. Like....I dunno. It's not like other teams are rushing around to do all of this stuff right now. Like let's go through this - CB: What if they end up drafting Wiggins, then they have 2 cost controlled CB's for the next few years rather than sign one or trade assets and use cap for one? OL: I for sure rather see a pick go there than sign someone for at least 1 of the 2 spots. WR: Would Aiyuk be great? Yes. I'm all for it. But this is also a very good WR draft class. You can get a starter later in day 2. DL: Again, I'm going to call you out on this - you want to complain about creating holes, but then at the same time get rid of your best DL player. Which do you want. 11 minutes ago, AFF said: To use a @43M reference…it’s like they’re spinning tires. I don't feel like they are. To me spinning tires would have been to keep Cole on his contract, sign Tannehill, resign Wallace right away, not make any safety moves, and just bring in small parts, keep DJ and maybe extend him. I think they are doing the 1 step back to set up a bunch of steps forward in the future. I felt the spinning tires from 2018-2022 when they did all this cap stuff and not bringing in anyone, extending some guys, and drafting for needs (Edmunds, Harris, Muth) just to try to give Ben "one last ride". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFF Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 24 minutes ago, warfelg said: I really see this year as we moved on from guys who created waves in the not as good way. Why is the answer to all of these FA or trade? Why not draft? See, this is what gets me, (and I know not all of you are arguing the same point), but I've offered up that there's still plenty of vets out there to do some of this hole plugging and the response was can't find starters. Like....I dunno. It's not like other teams are rushing around to do all of this stuff right now. Like let's go through this - CB: What if they end up drafting Wiggins, then they have 2 cost controlled CB's for the next few years rather than sign one or trade assets and use cap for one? OL: I for sure rather see a pick go there than sign someone for at least 1 of the 2 spots. WR: Would Aiyuk be great? Yes. I'm all for it. But this is also a very good WR draft class. You can get a starter later in day 2. DL: Again, I'm going to call you out on this - you want to complain about creating holes, but then at the same time get rid of your best DL player. Which do you want. I don't feel like they are. To me spinning tires would have been to keep Cole on his contract, sign Tannehill, resign Wallace right away, not make any safety moves, and just bring in small parts, keep DJ and maybe extend him. I think they are doing the 1 step back to set up a bunch of steps forward in the future. I felt the spinning tires from 2018-2022 when they did all this cap stuff and not bringing in anyone, extending some guys, and drafting for needs (Edmunds, Harris, Muth) just to try to give Ben "one last ride". You can move on from the headaches and still improve the team…I never said FA or trades were the only answer. However with so many holes, why weren’t they more aggressive on solidifying needs for the next few years and allowing them to draft BPA(to an extent). You use both to move the team forward. Soon as Russ was signed, that signaled that QB of the future was the #1 need going forward. The offseason should’ve been used to create the best environment for the QB(Fields or 2025 draft pick trade up)…. Yes the draft will be helpful…but at this point, that’s the only thing that will be/has been helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFF Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 @warfelg My main point is what have the done to improve the team for sure AFTER the 2024 season? The answer(besides maybe Queen) is….nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted April 5 Author Share Posted April 5 3 minutes ago, AFF said: However with so many holes, why weren’t they more aggressive on solidifying needs for the next few years and allowing them to draft BPA(to an extent). Personally, I feel like that's what they did TBH. C/RT/DL/CB/WR are really deep in this draft. 3 minutes ago, AFF said: Soon as Russ was signed, that signaled that QB of the future was the #1 need going forward. I think it was a need either way. And with Fields in house, I'm interesting in seeing how it plays out. I don't feel like we were ever moving up this year even after Kenny wanted out. 6 minutes ago, AFF said: The offseason should’ve been used to create the best environment for the QB(Fields or 2025 draft pick trade up)…. Yes the draft will be helpful…but at this point, that’s the only thing that will be/has been helpful. The draft is going to be the most helpful. It goes back but @43M and I were really against Colbert running that last offseason, and it was even worse to push to draft a QB. IMO that's part of what we are correcting right now is we didn't create a great environment se we got the bridge QB that is allowing us to do that. 4 minutes ago, AFF said: @warfelg My main point is what have the done to improve the team for sure AFTER the 2024 season? The answer(besides maybe Queen) is….nothing. I guess this is where I think differently. So far Khan has not restructured anyone, made any void years, or pushed off any money. He's, so far, kept all the picks for 2025 as well. To me that's part of it. Like I've said a few times now, part of the reason I've felt calm about this is I always felt like a rebuild was going to take 2-3 offseasons. We've got a good draft class in the door, cleaned the locker room, brought in some leadership type guys. I like that start to it, I hope this years draft class is as good and is impactful to the level of last year. So 2025 can come in with 2 strong draft classes, almost $100M in cap room, and assets to trade for a QBotF? Hell yea I like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigben07MVP Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 https://x.com/farabaughfb/status/1776262498926158006?s=46&t=qcRuXjH2St1oLeP8Aph7Og Sounds like either JPJ or Frazier is likely to still be there at 51 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rlon Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 34 minutes ago, bigben07MVP said: https://x.com/farabaughfb/status/1776262498926158006?s=46&t=qcRuXjH2St1oLeP8Aph7Og Sounds like either JPJ or Frazier is likely to still be there at 51 I believe this, yes. They are going tackle round one, outside chance of CB or WR, but those are the 3 value positions at 20. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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