Week 12 GDT: Jacksonville Jaguars (7-3) @ Arizona Cardinals (4-6) - GABBERT GAME

[pwny]

[jrry32]

2 hours ago, Jaguarfan said:

my concern is less the fact that we lost, it's who we lost to and why. This is yet another wholly uninspiring game where it looks like we're gonna struggle to beat any team, even if we do pull out the W. Hard to look at any guaranteed Ws on our schedule when we can't score on offense against bad teams. 

This was a typical Jaguars game. I thought they'd pull their Jaguar loss against the Chargers. Watch them go out next week and dominate.

[.Buzz]

21 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

This was a typical Jaguars game. I thought they'd pull their Jaguar loss against the Chargers. Watch them go out next week and dominate.

I sure hope you're right.

Luckily we got that Colts OL who we went off on earlier in the year coming up.

[LinderFournette]

8 hours ago, .Buzz said:

I sure hope you're right.

Luckily we got that Colts OL who we went off on earlier in the year coming up.

Lets make history with the 3rd 10 sacks

[DuvalsKing]

This was a game of where Bruce just flat out, out coached Doug period. Wash defense was plain as day not working when you have the best 2 corners in football you let them lock up man why we ran mostly zone first half is beyond me he brought no pressure to take momentum in the game after Yannick and Campbell made the big play to get back in the game. I've been saying for forever that Blake should use his legs more his passing lanes would open up even more if at times when something isn't there he pulled the ball down for a 3-4 yard gain instead of standing back there trying to be a pocket QB. Those safeties have to bite down if he presents a threat to run. Burnell used it well in the beginning of his career because clearly no debating say what you want about Blake he executes play action ball fakes very well and on designed runs he did well in that area. You have to start incorporating more of it in the offense.. I know they are scared of the 19 mil insurance settlement but you have to let him go.

[Tugboat]

On 11/27/2017 at 8:30 AM, DuvalsKing said:

This was a game of where Bruce just flat out, out coached Doug period. Wash defense was plain as day not working when you have the best 2 corners in football you let them lock up man why we ran mostly zone first half is beyond me he brought no pressure to take momentum in the game after Yannick and Campbell made the big play to get back in the game. I've been saying for forever that Blake should use his legs more his passing lanes would open up even more if at times when something isn't there he pulled the ball down for a 3-4 yard gain instead of standing back there trying to be a pocket QB. Those safeties have to bite down if he presents a threat to run. Burnell used it well in the beginning of his career because clearly no debating say what you want about Blake he executes play action ball fakes very well and on designed runs he did well in that area. You have to start incorporating more of it in the offense.. I know they are scared of the 19 mil insurance settlement but you have to let him go.

Bortles ran for like 160 yards in this game though.  That was the furthest thing from the reason we lost, or any sort of "solution".  The real issue, was that they never got any other semblance of a conventional run game on track at any point in the game.  Which means it all falls to Bortles to get it done, which means it's not going to get done.  And we lose.

If you're going to build a team around the identity of "elite defense, run the ball and control the clock"...you have to actually run the ball effectively (and even when they fully expect it), or it doesn't work.

[pwny]

I didn’t watch the game, but it seems to me, from box score scouting, the reason we lost was because Fournette, Yeldon and Ivory combined for 29 yards on 16 attempts. 1.8 yards per carry by what coming into the game was “the best run game in football” isn’t going to cut it.

Blame Blake for the pick all you want, but if he didn’t have those 62 yards, 2 rushing TDs on top of his passing, that team would have gotten boat raced playing like that.

[pwny]

And coaching has been bad the last two weeks before this. Sounds like it was garbage again this game.

 

Did they run that stupid off ball zone defense they ran against the Rams again?

[.Buzz]

6 minutes ago, iPwn said:

I didn’t watch the game, but it seems to me, from box score scouting, the reason we lost was because Fournette, Yeldon and Ivory combined for 29 yards on 16 attempts. 1.8 yards per carry by what coming into the game was “the best run game in football” isn’t going to cut it.

Blame Blake for the pick all you want, but if he didn’t have those 62 yards, 2 rushing TDs on top of his passing, that team would have gotten boat raced playing like that.

The OL has done well in preventing the opposing DL's in getting penetration all year. Against ARI, that didn't happen. Chandler Jones had 5-6 tackles at or behind the line of scrimmage. There was no where for LF to run and Blake being a guy that isn't going to hurt many teams with his arm doesn't help the situation as teams can stack the box and make him beat them (which he doesn't do very often).

No running game definitely did us in, but it'd help a bit if the QB didn't have such massive accuracy issues. Was frustrating as the WR's could have helped him a bit more, but he's not making ANYTHING easy for any of them. Each throw he makes they have to make some type of acrobatic/over the shoulder/reaching away from their momentum type of catch.

The interception still ultimately did this team in. That wasn't the sole reason we lost or anything but the fact that he's making a throw like that in year four is just insane. Especially given the fact that we were right around field goal range and there was no need for it. He literally threw it right to the guy like we've seen him do before.

[Tugboat]

8 minutes ago, iPwn said:

I didn’t watch the game, but it seems to me, from box score scouting, the reason we lost was because Fournette, Yeldon and Ivory combined for 29 yards on 16 attempts. 1.8 yards per carry by what coming into the game was “the best run game in football” isn’t going to cut it.

Blame Blake for the pick all you want, but if he didn’t have those 62 yards, 2 rushing TDs on top of his passing, that team would have gotten boat raced playing like that.

Yeah.  Ultimately, a lot of things went wrong.  It's Blake's fault for being very bad at throwing the football.  It's the receivers fault for being bad at catching.  It's Wash/Defenses fault for playing off when it didn't really make much sense to do so.  It's Doug's fault for moronic game management at the end where we still had a chance to take it to OT and try to win it, despite all of the other garbage.

But i just don't understand how they expect to be the sort of team they want to be...if they can't find a way to run the ball effectively...and often.  Be it Bortles or whatever "game manager" you want in there...if you can't generate a run game that gets the ball moving and fights yards out consistently, you can't run that sort of offense.  Period.  And we're sure as heck not going to be successful going full air raid and asking Bortles to toss the ball 30+ times a game.  There's enough track record there to know full well...if Bortles throws it 30+ times in a game, we are losing that game.

[Dashing202]

Don't worry Kirk cousins will be your qb next year for sure .

makes way to much sense for him to not come espically he would finally have a running game 

[Tugboat]

9 minutes ago, .Buzz said:

The OL has done well in preventing the opposing DL's in getting penetration all year. Against ARI, that didn't happen. Chandler Jones had 5-6 tackles at or behind the line of scrimmage. There was no where for LF to run and Blake being a guy that isn't going to hurt many teams with his arm doesn't help the situation as teams can stack the box and make him beat them (which he doesn't do very often).

No running game definitely did us in, but it'd help a bit if the QB didn't have such massive accuracy issues. Was frustrating as the WR's could have helped him a bit more, but he's not making ANYTHING easy for any of them. Each throw he makes they have to make some type of acrobatic/over the shoulder/reaching away from their momentum type of catch.

The interception still ultimately did this team in. That wasn't the sole reason we lost or anything but the fact that he's making a throw like that in year four is just insane. Especially given the fact that we were right around field goal range and there was no need for it. He literally through it right to the guy like we've seen him do before.

The thing is...The times when Bortles does make those throws that challenge a defense deep, is when he can do it off the back of a successful running game threat.  When they're sort of a sprinkle of Bortle on a big meaty steak of smash mouth ground game.  I mean yeah, it'd be fantastic if Bortles was an actually good Quarterback that teams respected coming into every game.  But that's not reality.  We're in a very different predicament.  If they can't get the ground game going, it falls to Bortles to make things happen...and that's a losing recipe.  Because he's a bad quarterback, who does particularly bad things the more you expect from him.

[.Buzz]

1 minute ago, Tugboat said:

The thing is...The times when Bortles does make those throws that challenge a defense deep, is when he can do it off the back of a successful running game threat.  When they're sort of a sprinkle of Bortle on a big meaty steak of smash mouth ground game.  I mean yeah, it'd be fantastic if Bortles was an actually good Quarterback that teams respected coming into every game.  But that's not reality.  We're in a very different predicament.  If they can't get the ground game going, it falls to Bortles to make things happen...and that's a losing recipe.  Because he's a bad quarterback, who does particularly bad things the more you expect from him.

We don't need him to be good. That's not even what I'm saying. But making semi-accurate throws on passes any NFL caliber QB should make would be terrific. If he would than I think the results against ARI may have been quite different as there was opportunities that he just missed and we barely lost that game.

Either way, he just isn't that guy and it's whatever. Just very frustrating to see him miss a slant route 5-7 yard down the field by as much as he does. Like yes, the WR SHOULD catch it, but why do you have to make it that difficult for him? This is the NFL, you shouldn't be missing by that much on short/intermediate routes.

[Tugboat]

3 minutes ago, .Buzz said:

We don't need him to be good. That's not even what I'm saying. But making semi-accurate throws on passes any NFL caliber QB should make would be terrific. If he would than I think the results against ARI may have been quite different as there was opportunities that he just missed and we barely lost that game.

Either way, he just isn't that guy and it's whatever. Just very frustrating to see him miss a slant route 5-7 yard down the field by as much as he does. Like yes, the WR SHOULD catch it, but why do you have to make it that difficult for him? This is the NFL, you shouldn't be missing by that much on short/intermediate routes.

That's the catch of the whole thing.  Bortles isn't a conservative but accurate game-manager QB like that.  When Bortles does well...he's just sorta flinging it downfield behind the defense off play action or whatever, with tons of room for his receivers to adjust on it and reel it in.

He's hopeless at quick timing routes.  He has horrendous ball placement on those quick slants and crossing route "easy throws".  He even makes screens and checkdowns look difficult and unchoreographed.  He's always been like that, and he always will be.  Because he's a gamer and sometimes even a playmaker, but he's a fundamentally bad football thrower.  A guy like ARob can help cover that up at times by being amazing at using his body and hands to compensate for balls that could end up anywhere in the general vicinity of where they're supposed to...but we don't even have that crutch right now.

 

That's where it seems to me at least, that the only hope for this offense to look anything other than utterly putrid, is to find a way to run the ball right down their throat early and often.  And to do it successfully enough that Bortles can start running some of those "throw a duck somewhere deep and let the receiver make a play on it 1-on-1 with the whole defense cheating down" throws he specializes in.  If they can't get the run game going successfully on its own, trying to get Bortles to kickstart it by playing a precision dink and dunk game is going to completely crater the offense...because he simply can't execute that stuff with anything resembling the sort of consistency required.

 

[.Buzz]

21 minutes ago, Tugboat said:

Yeah.  Ultimately, a lot of things went wrong.  It's Blake's fault for being very bad at throwing the football.  It's the receivers fault for being bad at catching.  It's Wash/Defenses fault for playing off when it didn't really make much sense to do so.  It's Doug's fault for moronic game management at the end where we still had a chance to take it to OT and try to win it, despite all of the other garbage.

But i just don't understand how they expect to be the sort of team they want to be...if they can't find a way to run the ball effectively...and often.  Be it Bortles or whatever "game manager" you want in there...if you can't generate a run game that gets the ball moving and fights yards out consistently, you can't run that sort of offense.  Period.  And we're sure as heck not going to be successful going full air raid and asking Bortles to toss the ball 30+ times a game.  There's enough track record there to know full well...if Bortles throws it 30+ times in a game, we are losing that game.

Thing is, we were doing that. But you take out arguably our best run blocking OL at RT and put in a scrub like Josh Wells and do the same at LG (Omameh is pretty darn solid as a run blocker, not so great as a pass blocker). After one solid game from Reed he looked bad this game. Cam also struggled quite a bit with Chandler Jones (although Jones came from the inside too, but still, Cam had a tough go at it). It sucks that our LT is clearly not 100% and it's causing technique issues, our RT is hurt and we are putting out a fringe depth OL, and Chris Reed had a bad game.

Put a fully healthy starting 5 OL out there and we're fine. But unfortunately injuries happen and guys have to step up. Doesn't help that the OL issue is league wide though. It'd be great if we could get quality depth across the board, but that isn't happening. Look at what is happening to Dallas since Tyron Smith got hurt. Adrian freaking Clayborne had 6 sacks on their backup LT....ADRIAN CLAYBORNE.