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elliot878

NFL's Blatant Disrespect for the No Fly Zone, specifically Chris Harris Jr.

17 posts in this topic

elliot878    11

This gets me worked up every year, and I'd like to start a sounding board on the subject.

We all know the NFL Network's top 100 list is a joke, but the fact that they still disrespect the No Fly Zone - especially Chris Harris Jr. irks me.

Here is this years NFL Network top 100 and for comparison, this years Pro Football Focus 101.  The NFL Network's list actually dropped him from 52 last year to 63 this year.  This for a player who has developed as consistent a shutdown resume as some of the all-time greats.  

Here is more ammo in Chris Harris Jr's favor.  He's climbing the list of all time great CB's, quite rapidly, and by the advanced metrics has been the best over the last 5 years.  Is NFL just mad they didn't cash in on him pre-draft by not inviting him to the combine, or listing him in any draft profiles?

There aren't many cornerbacks historically who have been elite both outside and in the slot as Harris has been for the entirety of his career.  A good summary from bleacher report, who rank him the leagues top shutdown corner.

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champ11    11
Posted (edited)

this is crazy.

 

i think it's because he's short. there is no reasonable explanation for his lack of hype

Edited by champ11

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elliot878    11

Is it the stigma of the slot?  I thought this myth that slot cornerbacks are less useful/less talented than outside corners had been debunked.  Slot is a more difficult position to play as there's no boundary to use as another defender.  Slot corners have to be quick to cover both directions of a receivers break.  Sure the most talented WR's typically play the outside, but Harris has shut them down at an elite level on the outside as well.  It's blasphemy!

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Broncofan    14
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, elliot878 said:

Is it the stigma of the slot?  I thought this myth that slot cornerbacks are less useful/less talented than outside corners had been debunked.  Slot is a more difficult position to play as there's no boundary to use as another defender.  Slot corners have to be quick to cover both directions of a receivers break.  Sure the most talented WR's typically play the outside, but Harris has shut them down at an elite level on the outside as well.  It's blasphemy!

I think it's more that he's seen as part of a great group of DB's...rather than being the leader of the pack. 

It's somewhat understandable when Talib had an elite year last year, and what Stewart's done as a FS in 2015-16.   It doesn't mean Harris isn't elite, but I think people have a hard time separating individual from unit performance because of the great talent he plays with.  

Anyways, didn't the top 100 include JJ Watt?  Not that he isn't an elite player when healthy, but just assuming he'll be elite again after TWO back surgeries is pretty iffy.  That alone shows the flaw in their methodology, more for entertainment purposes than truly objective, at least in talking about 2017 projection.

Edited by Broncofan

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elliot878    11
59 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

I think it's more that he's seen as part of a great group of DB's...rather than being the leader of the pack. 

It's somewhat understandable when Talib had an elite year last year, and what Stewart's done as a FS in 2015-16.   It doesn't mean Harris isn't elite, but I think people have a hard time separating individual from unit performance because of the great talent he plays with.  

Anyways, didn't the top 100 include JJ Watt?  Not that he isn't an elite player when healthy, but just assuming he'll be elite again after TWO back surgeries is pretty iffy.  That alone shows the flaw in their methodology, more for entertainment purposes than truly objective, at least in talking about 2017 projection.

@Broncofan, but unit success has never seemed to hinder the rankings or status of guys like Richard Sherman, playing outside of the best safety tandem in the league.  It's simply a head scratcher to me.

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Some of it is he's not as outspoken or flashy as some of the other top DB's so he doesn't get that national attention. 

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champ11    11
1 hour ago, broncosfan07 said:

Some of it is he's not as outspoken or flashy as some of the other top DB's so he doesn't get that national attention. 

it's funny bc I've noticed him give a lot more cocky quotes the last couple years. I really think it is his (undrafted) draft position and height ?? idk 

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elliot878    11
7 hours ago, champ11 said:

it's funny bc I've noticed him give a lot more cocky quotes the last couple years. I really think it is his (undrafted) draft position and height ?? idk 

Yea I've always said being labeled the best cornerback in the NFL is like being labeled the best rapper - you have to say it a million times and then people will start believing it.  Chris didn't catch on to that til a year or two ago lol.

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elliot878    11

Some pretty eye popping stats from NFL Media on Chris Harris Jr. that I found interesting.  In this video they compare his stats only to the elite and above average corners in the league.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/0ap3000000819376/DDFP-Is-Chris-Harris-Jr-the-most-underrated-CB-in-the-NFL

 

Highlights: 

Missed tackle rate - 1 missed tackle out of every 42 attempts for Chris Harris Jr.

  • Elite & above average corners miss a tackle 1 of ever 14 attempts

Catch Rate - 52 targets, 4 catches allowed.  1 in 13 catch rate for Chris Harris Jr.

  • Elite & above average 1 in 10 catch rate.

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cddolphin    63

Most filthy casuals don't appreciate CBs. If you tell them so-and-so is a good CB, they'll ask how many INTs he has. ESPN and NFLN (less so) cater to a market where these fans are the majority. Yes, Harris is short and wasn't a premier draft pick, so he's already facing an uphill battle for national recognition.

Checking out his contract, the Broncos got him for somewhat of a bargain.. an average cap hit of $9m for the next three years. That's not a bad deal.

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champ11    11
37 minutes ago, cddolphin said:

Most filthy casuals don't appreciate CBs. If you tell them so-and-so is a good CB, they'll ask how many INTs he has. ESPN and NFLN (less so) cater to a market where these fans are the majority. Yes, Harris is short and wasn't a premier draft pick, so he's already facing an uphill battle for national recognition.

Checking out his contract, the Broncos got him for somewhat of a bargain.. an average cap hit of $9m for the next three years. That's not a bad deal.

oh it's an amazing deal 

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Jakuvious    16
Posted (edited)
On 7/23/2017 at 8:42 PM, elliot878 said:

This gets me worked up every year, and I'd like to start a sounding board on the subject.

We all know the NFL Network's top 100 list is a joke, but the fact that they still disrespect the No Fly Zone - especially Chris Harris Jr. irks me.

Here is this years NFL Network top 100 and for comparison, this years Pro Football Focus 101.  The NFL Network's list actually dropped him from 52 last year to 63 this year.  This for a player who has developed as consistent a shutdown resume as some of the all-time greats.  

Here is more ammo in Chris Harris Jr's favor.  He's climbing the list of all time great CB's, quite rapidly, and by the advanced metrics has been the best over the last 5 years.  Is NFL just mad they didn't cash in on him pre-draft by not inviting him to the combine, or listing him in any draft profiles?

There aren't many cornerbacks historically who have been elite both outside and in the slot as Harris has been for the entirety of his career.  A good summary from bleacher report, who rank him the leagues top shutdown corner.

I think Aqib Talib is ultimately what's at fault. Just about anyone who pays attention knows how great Chris Harris is. I would argue he's the best CB in the division, and that's saying A LOT right now, and he's close to, maybe is, the best in the league.

But Talib plays almost exclusively in the LCB spot, which has long been regarded as the #1 CB spot. In large part because RWR was generally always the #1 WR spot. It's become a lot more complicated and nuanced than that, as the game has developed to be heavily based on trying to exploit matchups in the passing game, so we now have #1 CBs who spend a lot of time inside and #1 WRs may play LWR or may play slot more than RWR. But people are slow to adapt to that. Even those who would've voted for the top 100. So from a depth chart perspective, it would seem intuitive to think that Harris is probably worse than Talib. Add in that Talib is a lot louder, and generally produces more turnovers, and most shortcuts that someone would take to analyze CBs would suggest that Talib is probably Denver's best CB. And you'll notice, Talib has been higher on each of the past two lists. Which inevitably bumps Harris down lists like these.

It's akin to if the league's best offensive linemen was a RT, and he happened to have a top 10 linemen across from him at LT. People would assume hey, if that RT was really so great, he'd be playing at LT, so the LT must be better.

It's inaccurate, it isn't exactly fair to Harris, but it's the way people who don't actually pay attention to CB play (because it is a hard position to watch in the first place) will make logical shortcuts. No one is mad or bitter or trying to actively short him. The voters just legitimately don't know any better there.

Edited by Jakuvious

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BroncoBruin    11
Posted (edited)

The interesting thing about Harris to me is people presume him to be a quiet player who lets his play speak for itself. This was commonly used to defend him against the likes of Sherman, to explain his lack of recognition. But it isn't that Harris is quiet, people just aren't paying attention when he talks. Which is a LOT. 

He talks trash all game, he's called himself the best for a few years and he's not shy with his takes on social media. Dude is TRYING to get in on that "diva CB" action but nobody notices lol. 

Edited by BroncoBruin

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champ11    11
On 7/28/2017 at 3:22 PM, BroncoBruin said:

The interesting thing about Harris to me is people presume him to be a quiet player who lets his play speak for itself. This was commonly used to defend him against the likes of Sherman, to explain his lack of recognition. But it isn't that Harris is quiet, people just aren't paying attention when he talks. Which is a LOT. 

He talks trash all game, he's called himself the best for a few years and he's not shy with his takes on social media. Dude is TRYING to get in on that "diva CB" action but nobody notices lol. 

lol dude I've thought the exact same thing. I think it's the lack of wild athleticism he has that guys like Patterson have. 

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