StLunatic88 Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 (edited) One more fellas, and you know what that is... Edited May 9, 2023 by StLunatic88 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgarrett12486 Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 (edited) Honest question, are we looking for a starting C next off-season? Edited May 9, 2023 by kgarrett12486 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonStark Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 9 minutes ago, kgarrett12486 said: I'm not really sure where this Contreras situation goes from here. The comments from the FO/manager aren't even on the same page. They flat out embarrassed him publicly. Another reason I'm done with the Jack Flaherty expirement after he essentially started this fire storm with his actions/gestures in his last start. Dude is such a whoa is me guy. Yeah, WC being the scapegoat for our struggles is pretty crappy. He may not have been playing great defensively, but the pitchers are throwing the pitches (with the ability to shake him off) and the manager is the one in charge of which pitchers are in the game. Really feel bad for Contreras who came in here as excited and motivated as can be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holt_bruce81 Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 I don’t even know what to think of the Contreras situation. At the end of the day I blame the organization for not doing their due diligence before giving Willson such a massive deal in the offseason. I think we panicked a little, especially when the trade for Sean Murphy fell through. I mean didn’t the Cubs see the regression defensively last year? I’m not sitting around watching Chicago Cubs baseball but last year the Cubs gave Yan Gomes almost just as many starts behind home plate as Contreras. He only caught 60% of the games he played in last year. So he was never going to be a guy who catches 130+ games for you. But I think there’s a lot behind the scenes that we don’t know about. Mo doesn’t admit many mistakes and for him to publicly come out and say what he’s said, and Oli as well….30 games into a 5 year $85+ million dollar marriage? Something else has to be going on. I’m hoping they figure it out because spending that kind of money on a DH is just gross. Plus it takes ABs away from other players. And us losing that 2nd round pick this year is a double ouch, especially with how good our scouting department has been recently. The entire organization seems a bit dysfunctional right now. Oli calling out players, Flaherty calling out his catcher, Mo calling out Contreras, Waino snapping at a reporter.……just a really weird year. I think a change is needed at the top. But u don’t think that ever happens unless Mo decides to step down. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLunatic88 Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 13 hours ago, holt_bruce81 said: I mean didn’t the Cubs see the regression defensively last year? I’m not sitting around watching Chicago Cubs baseball but last year the Cubs gave Yan Gomes almost just as many starts behind home plate as Contreras. That all is true, but there is no way you can make such a declarative judgement in 23 games. Not to mention that the staff isnt any better with Kizner behind the plate. Plus we have PitchCom now if they dont like him calling the pitches, PLUS I dont trust our Pitching coach as far as I can throw him. The only thing that I can come up with here, is that the Staff was complaining, and blaming their poor preformance on Wilson, which is even more embarassing than what Oli (and Mo) did in this situation. On that note, who could have had enough sway to complain enough to make this happen? Doubt it was Montgomery, hes been great. Dont think they would listen to Woodford, same goes for pretty much everyone in the Bullpen. So that leaves the other 3 starters; Flaherty, Mikolas, Matz... IF they are listening to Matz, then we are in bigger trouble than I thought. You just paid Mikolas so Id listen to him, but he doesnt seem like that kind of guy (maybe Im being biased there) OR there is one guy who has made excuses after just about every start so far this year, who is way more wooried about his upcoming payday than anything else. Maybe thats unfair to Jack, but I very much feel like he would be the leader of the charge that Wilson isnt "Good Enough" defensively, which Ive yet to see him be any worse than Knizer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOSteelers56 Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 First 3 game win streak occurs in the middle of May and it was led by Knizner and DeJong. Just like we thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holt_bruce81 Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 1 hour ago, StLunatic88 said: That all is true, but there is no way you can make such a declarative judgement in 23 games. Not to mention that the staff isnt any better with Kizner behind the plate. Plus we have PitchCom now if they dont like him calling the pitches, PLUS I dont trust our Pitching coach as far as I can throw him. The only thing that I can come up with here, is that the Staff was complaining, and blaming their poor preformance on Wilson, which is even more embarassing than what Oli (and Mo) did in this situation. On that note, who could have had enough sway to complain enough to make this happen? Doubt it was Montgomery, hes been great. Dont think they would listen to Woodford, same goes for pretty much everyone in the Bullpen. So that leaves the other 3 starters; Flaherty, Mikolas, Matz... IF they are listening to Matz, then we are in bigger trouble than I thought. You just paid Mikolas so Id listen to him, but he doesnt seem like that kind of guy (maybe Im being biased there) OR there is one guy who has made excuses after just about every start so far this year, who is way more wooried about his upcoming payday than anything else. Maybe thats unfair to Jack, but I very much feel like he would be the leader of the charge that Wilson isnt "Good Enough" defensively, which Ive yet to see him be any worse than Knizer. Doesn’t the team have a much better ERA with Knizner behind the plate? But reading up on this more, I don’t think it’s a matter of Contreras’ defense. I think the issue is with his game preparation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLunatic88 Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 14 minutes ago, holt_bruce81 said: Doesn’t the team have a much better ERA with Knizner behind the plate? But reading up on this more, I don’t think it’s a matter of Contreras’ defense. I think the issue is with his game preparation. I am not ever going to claim to be an expert on catching and who is doing better/whatever but when I watch games, I do not see Willson doing anything to hurt the team behind the plate. If they are saying he isnt "prepared enough" then the whole team isnt "prepared enough" because the Pitchers should know their jobs, the Pitching Coach should as well. When looking at the stats (which are dubious as it doesnt always take into account the Umpires and how they are calling when looking at Framing) The difference between Willson and Knizer is less than 1.5 runs in ERA. In such a small sample size, especially with Knizer being the less innings, and often the "get away" catcher. If we are talking about Framing, I believe Knizer is attributed with saving just 1 Run so far, while Willson is at 0 (means none saved/none lost). And if you pull in the Strike Rate, I have a cursory understanding of this all, Knizer (48.4) is 2.7% better than Willson (45.7) this early in the season. So Knizer is alittle above average and Willson is alittle below (average right now in '23 is 47%). My point with all of this, its not what brought us to 10+ games under .500 to start the season, especially when Willson is hitting 50 points higher for AVG, and 100 points higher in OPS. So unless Contrares is telling the staff to Kick Rocks when it comes to game prep, its not worth subbing probably our WOST hitter on the roster into the lineup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLunatic88 Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 33 minutes ago, holt_bruce81 said: I think the issue is with his game preparation. Also, not calling you out on this, but yes thats what was said. And it came across as the Snootiest, sniff our own farts, BS that this Management group has said in a while. "The standard we have come to expect" oh, you mean the standard of a Hall of Famer? Possibly the best defensive Catcher EVER? Im so sick of the "Cardinal Way" nonsense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgarrett12486 Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 Flaherty is such a tool. Listen to his post game interview. He's been the leader of the charge to remove Contreras from behind the plate for Knizer, yet he's still been garbage since. He was sitting around 88-91 last night and the media asked him about it. He proceeds to tell Goold he knows nothing about the 'art of pitching'. This coming from the guy who has no command of his FB since he came back from the injury and has a BB/9 of almost 6.5. You're anything but a pitcher Jack, you're simply a thrower at this point in your career and not a very good one at that. When you actually show the ability to 'pitch' then you can drop that line. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLunatic88 Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 1 hour ago, kgarrett12486 said: Flaherty is such a tool. Listen to his post game interview. He's been the leader of the charge to remove Contreras from behind the plate for Knizer, yet he's still been garbage since. I honestly just want to ship him off for whatever we can get at this point. I dont even want to extend a QO to him for a draft pick. I dont care about politics in sports, so this isnt about any of that, but he just seems like he is a nuisance in the locker room. Send him on his way, commit to Liberatore for the rest of the season, and lets see what we've got 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonStark Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 5 hours ago, StLunatic88 said: "The standard we have come to expect" If this is the kind of mindset Oli wants, he should start leading by example. He's been better over the last couple games, but until I see him actually hold himself accountable instead of just blaming his mistakes on the way the ball bounces, the standard he is setting is one of excuses which doesn't help us win. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonStark Posted May 15, 2023 Share Posted May 15, 2023 Team is starting to turn it around, and Oli wasn't bad this past series. Hopefully this trend continues and the last month was an outlier. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLunatic88 Posted May 15, 2023 Share Posted May 15, 2023 1 hour ago, JonStark said: Team is starting to turn it around, and Oli wasn't bad this past series. Hopefully this trend continues and the last month was an outlier. I still am very annoyed why one of our best hitters is on the bench for the most of the series, and has to bail out our other questionable pitching moves that put us in holes 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOSteelers56 Posted May 15, 2023 Share Posted May 15, 2023 2 hours ago, JonStark said: Team is starting to turn it around, and Oli wasn't bad this past series. Hopefully this trend continues and the last month was an outlier. Couple of 10 game win streaks and we'll be right back in the thick of the wild card hunt lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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