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The STL Cardinals Thread - NL Central Champions


CWood21
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On 2/18/2021 at 11:45 AM, CWood21 said:

What is O'Neill's upside?  You're probably seeing something akin to what he posted 2018 but over the course of a full season you're probably talking about a ~3 WAR player.  Legitimately here, that's his upside.  He's got to consistently be able to tap into that power in order to be a legitimate player.  And that's ignoring the fact that his ISO plummeted the last two seasons.  Benintendi is/was the safer bet.  If you want upside, go with O'Neill.  I'm just not really wanting a potential negative in the lineup.

I'm here to eat my crow on TON.

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18 hours ago, CWood21 said:

I'm here to eat my crow on TON.

We're all eating it. We all knew he had this kind of power potential and the strikeout rate is about what expected.

However, the average, the OBP and his ability to hit XBH outside of the HRs has been a good send. He's turned into a legit 5 category offense threat. He's also been one of the best LFs statistically in MLB.

I think we all saw the success Marco Gonzales had early on and thought uh oh. Fast forward two years and looks like a steal for us moving forward.

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If Edmundo Sosa continues this torrid approach at plate throughout the rest of season/playoffs are you all comfortable with us going into ST with him as the starting SS? 

This is the big debate all over media right now. I'd say if you're not going to go out and try to get one of these premier FA SS that could be available (whether it's via FA or trade) and you want to keep Sosa there, then you better be getting a legit #1 type starter to pair with Flaherty, or signing an big-time impact DH bat. 

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48 minutes ago, kgarrett12486 said:

If Edmundo Sosa continues this torrid approach at plate throughout the rest of season/playoffs are you all comfortable with us going into ST with him as the starting SS? 

This is the big debate all over media right now. I'd say if you're not going to go out and try to get one of these premier FA SS that could be available (whether it's via FA or trade) and you want to keep Sosa there, then you better be getting a legit #1 type starter to pair with Flaherty, or signing an big-time impact DH bat. 

I'd lean more towards focusing mostly on the pitching staff. I think they run it back with Dejong and Sosa next year. Let them compete and play the winner. We also will have Delvin Perez sitting in AAA waiting to get called up. I think the offense is WS caliber as it is, as is the defense. The pitching staff is most certainly not. 

Having said that, I wouldn't be upset if we go after a big time SS. I will if it comes at the expense of signing a FOR guy. 

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1 hour ago, kgarrett12486 said:

If Edmundo Sosa continues this torrid approach at plate throughout the rest of season/playoffs are you all comfortable with us going into ST with him as the starting SS? 

No, plain and simple No. We've done this 2 other times recently with DeJong and Edman, who are fine players, but deliver in the new season less than their hot streaks to end the previous one.

Lets go get a locked in starter, the market is flooded with SS options, and we can feel confident for the next few years (you know, what is the window with Arenado/Goldschmidt/Flaherty/The OF) and lengthen the Lineup.

This also solves another issue, the Depth on this roster. You let Edman/Sosa/Gorman (and even DeJong if you dont trade him) Fight to be the everyday 2B, with others being the Super Utility, even contributing in the OF.

And even if we go with the retirement parade and bring in Pujols as the DH, he likely isnt doing that every day, So these guys will get time that ways as well (either as the DH or in the field as we give guys days off in the field)

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34 minutes ago, MOSteelers56 said:

I'd lean more towards focusing mostly on the pitching staff.

If both Hudson and Flaherty are going to be ready to pitch before the end of this season, they pretty much have to be penciled into the Rotation for 2022. Add in Waino's last ride, Mikolas still under contract and then Reyes finally getting his shot as a starter (not to mention the two Lefties who should be on the brink of the majors) Feels like if its not  Sherzer being added to the rotation, its not really worth it.

Yes, we also need to shore up the Pen, but we shouldnt be handing out major contracts there that would impact the kind of signing were talking about

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1 hour ago, kgarrett12486 said:

If Edmundo Sosa continues this torrid approach at plate throughout the rest of season/playoffs are you all comfortable with us going into ST with him as the starting SS? 

This is the big debate all over media right now. I'd say if you're not going to go out and try to get one of these premier FA SS that could be available (whether it's via FA or trade) and you want to keep Sosa there, then you better be getting a legit #1 type starter to pair with Flaherty, or signing an big-time impact DH bat. 

I still would like the front office to go out and sign one of these premier Shortstops in the offseason. Have an open competition for the starting  2B job between Edman, Sosa and Dejong and let the other two become super utility guys off the bench. 

Fortunately, Dejong's contract doesn't hurt us to bad the next 2 years. 

 

Edited by holt_bruce81
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15 hours ago, StLunatic88 said:

If both Hudson and Flaherty are going to be ready to pitch before the end of this season, they pretty much have to be penciled into the Rotation for 2022. Add in Waino's last ride, Mikolas still under contract and then Reyes finally getting his shot as a starter (not to mention the two Lefties who should be on the brink of the majors) Feels like if its not  Sherzer being added to the rotation, its not really worth it.

Yes, we also need to shore up the Pen, but we shouldnt be handing out major contracts there that would impact the kind of signing were talking about

I'm not sold at all on Hudson. I don't think he's good enough to pencil in as a starter. There's no guarantee that Waino will pitch as well again, Hudson has question marks(at least to me), and Mikolas is far from certain. That's not even including the potential Reyes flame out. We need to sign a FOR guy. I'm excited to see what the kids can do, but relying on rookie starters is far from ideal for a WS competitor. If I can't sign Scherzer, I'm trading for someone. 

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I'm in with the consensus of @StLunatic88 and @holt_bruce81 and @ttitansfan4life. It's not often (if ever) you have this many premier SS options become available at one time. for whatever reason, Paul DeJong has regressed immensely at the plate and in the filed over the last 24 months, so he can no longer in the fold as the starter.

While Sosa has been a revelation, the track record for his bat just isn't there and this 3 month sample size just isn't enough for me to hand him the job in 2022. Like you all have said, competition breeds the best in most people and having Sosa/Edman battle for the 2B job, while the loser of that being our super utility infielder is ideal IMO. 

If I can add a guy like Carlos Correa to my lineup and my infield defense, I'm doing it because I may not get that opportunity again. 

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1 hour ago, MOSteelers56 said:

I'm not sold at all on Hudson. I don't think he's good enough to pencil in as a starter. There's no guarantee that Waino will pitch as well again, Hudson has question marks(at least to me), and Mikolas is far from certain. That's not even including the potential Reyes flame out. We need to sign a FOR guy. I'm excited to see what the kids can do, but relying on rookie starters is far from ideal for a WS competitor. If I can't sign Scherzer, I'm trading for someone. 

Outside of recovering from injury, what does Hudson have to prove as at the very least a good starter?

If your questions come from the injury then fine, but you dont sound like thats it. Not to mention hes apparently looked really good in the rehabs.

Mikolas and Waino are going to be given Rotation spots, thats just facts. And from what Ive heard, Reyes has been promised to be able to come into camp as a starter. And with the pitching talent he has its hard to see him not being a Starter. He doesnt fit in the bullpen, hes just making it work right now.

Again, if you can get/are willing to pay a Max Scherzer, thats an exception. But if were talking somewhere more in the middle (a Danny Duffy or whatever) no thanks, Ill go with our guys, and spend out limited assets on a Bat.

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3 minutes ago, kgarrett12486 said:

If I can add a guy like Carlos Correa to my lineup and my infield defense, I'm doing it because I may not get that opportunity again. 

I know everyone is going to have their favorites here (Im suddenly partial to Marcus Semien) but I think Correa is the one we dont really have a chance at. Feels like hes going to be like Stanton, as far as where he wants to play

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24 minutes ago, StLunatic88 said:

Outside of recovering from injury, what does Hudson have to prove as at the very least a good starter?

If your questions come from the injury then fine, but you dont sound like thats it. Not to mention hes apparently looked really good in the rehabs.

I know advanced stats maybe disagree with me, but he definitely doesn't pass my eye test. He walks too many people, he doesn't strike anyone out, he doesn't get consistent ground ball outs, he doesn't have filthy stuff. He just sort of is. He put up big win stats that year, but he just seems like it was a bit flukey. Maybe I'm wrong. I'm far from a analytics expert, and I'm hoping he's great. I just don't see it. I hope it's because he's young, but I remember the same arguments were levied against him in the minors too. I expect him to be a pretty average back of the rotation guy right now. He's got potential, I just don't expect much from him. 

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  • CWood21 changed the title to The STL Cardinals Thread - NL Central Champions

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