MOSteelers56 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 3 minutes ago, CWood21 said: I don't think the problem is that we don't like our farm system, it's just that our top prospects this year didn't have a great year sans Dylan Carlson and to a lesser extent Nolan Gorman. Andrew Knizner was shuttled between Memphis and St. Louis, but his numbers in Memphis were largely pedestrian. Elehuris Montero had a season to forget this year between injuries and ineffectiveness. Zack Thompson threw 15 1/3 IP this season, so your opinion of him probably is the same as when he was drafted. We've been betting on Jhon Torres' tools, but his numbers at Peoria were underwhelming. Gensis Cabrera is struggling with control both in terms of walks and home runs allowed. How many of the Cardinals' prospects do you feel made significant jumps forward? The list isn't very long. You'd probably say Dylan Carlson, Ivan Herrera, and Mateo Gil. Helsley, Whitely, Junior Fernandez, Woodford looked good in the AFL, Oviedo, Rondon, Randy A, Justin Williams smashed in Memphis. Plus the young guys who still have tons of potential, Gorman, Fletcher, Torres, Montero. Plus guys who looked good with their cups of coffee like Lane Thomas. I also really like Terry Fuller. I think it's an interesting farm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted October 28, 2019 Author Share Posted October 28, 2019 2 minutes ago, MOSteelers56 said: Helsley, Whitely, Junior Fernandez, Woodford looked good in the AFL, Oviedo, Rondon, Randy A, Justin Williams smashed in Memphis. Plus the young guys who still have tons of potential, Gorman, Fletcher, Torres, Montero. Plus guys who looked good with their cups of coffee like Lane Thomas. I also really like Terry Fuller. I think it's an interesting farm. Disagree on most of those guys. Helsley was shuttled in between the rotation and the bullpen, which don't help his overall numbers. But the 74 IP this year were nearly identical to the year before. And he had a FIP north of 4 in AAA and with St. Louis. Kodi Whitley is a non-prospect IMO. Maybe you might get some good bullpen innings out of him, but the stuff just isn't there. Junior Fernandez went from being a potential darkhorse quality SP prospect to a bullpen arm. An average one at that. Jake Woodford struggled badly with control this year, and that was from a guy who was supposed to be a control pitcher and he's HR prone. Plus, his stuff is average across the board. Johan Oviedo I'd give you, but he needs to tighten up his control. I don't get excited about reliever prospects unless they have big stuff. Don't see Rondon as that kind of player. Justin Williams seems more like a AAAA player than a legitimate player. I'm talking about guys who pushed their value up significantly. Right now, we have two headliners in our farm system: Dylan Carlson and Nolan Gorman. Mozeliak has pretty much already came out and said that Carlson is off-limits, and Gorman is pretty much there. It's going to be hard to put together a strong package if neither of them are available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holt_bruce81 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 12 minutes ago, CWood21 said: I don't think the problem is that we don't like our farm system, it's just that our top prospects this year didn't have a great year sans Dylan Carlson and to a lesser extent Nolan Gorman. Andrew Knizner was shuttled between Memphis and St. Louis, but his numbers in Memphis were largely pedestrian. Elehuris Montero had a season to forget this year between injuries and ineffectiveness. Zack Thompson threw 15 1/3 IP this season, so your opinion of him probably is the same as when he was drafted. We've been betting on Jhon Torres' tools, but his numbers at Peoria were underwhelming. Gensis Cabrera is struggling with control both in terms of walks and home runs allowed. How many of the Cardinals' prospects do you feel made significant jumps forward? The list isn't very long. You'd probably say Dylan Carlson, Ivan Herrera, and Mateo Gil. How many prospects are supposed to make “significant jumps” for me to be excited about our farm system? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted October 28, 2019 Author Share Posted October 28, 2019 Just now, holt_bruce81 said: How many prospects are supposed to make “significant jumps” for me to be excited about our farm system? I'm not sure there's a specific number. I'm just looking at the guys who were ranked at the top or near the top, how many of them made significant jumps? I'd argue only Carlson and Herrera. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted October 28, 2019 Author Share Posted October 28, 2019 FWIW, Blecher Report ranked the Cardinals farm system as the 23rd best prospect. FanGraphs has the Cardinals listed as the 19th best prospect. That's about right. Without going through the farms, I'd assume the Cardinals are somewhere in that 18-24 range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holt_bruce81 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 3 minutes ago, CWood21 said: I'm not sure there's a specific number. I'm just looking at the guys who were ranked at the top or near the top, how many of them made significant jumps? I'd argue only Carlson and Herrera. Nolan Gorman? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted October 28, 2019 Author Share Posted October 28, 2019 10 minutes ago, holt_bruce81 said: Nolan Gorman? I wouldn't fight you too hard on that one, but I wouldn't really say he really improved his standings. He did the same thing he did last year only just a level higher. His ISO dropped a bit, and his K% went up as well. And his BB% was cut nearly in half. He's about 3 years younger than the average age for that level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holt_bruce81 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 1 minute ago, CWood21 said: I wouldn't fight you too hard on that one, but I wouldn't really say he really improved his standings. He did the same thing he did last year only just a level higher. His ISO dropped a bit, and his K% went up as well. And his BB% was cut nearly in half. He's about 3 years younger than the average age for that level. And he had a wRC+ of around 120. Pretty damn good for one of life not the youngest player in that league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted October 28, 2019 Author Share Posted October 28, 2019 Just now, holt_bruce81 said: And he had a wRC+ of around 120. Pretty damn good for one of life not the youngest player in that league. LIS, if you ignore the age adjustment the numbers aren't all that impressive. But he was a backend top 100 prospect coming into the year and he's probably a 60-80 prospect right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgarrett12486 Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 I thought I'd jump into the conversation here on the prospects: Carlson and Gorman are the clear headliners. They're both pretty much untouchable unless your getting an elite cost controlled guy back... Just a tier below I have Knizner and Thompson. I think they both have good value to other teams. Teams saw that Kizner was shuttled back and forth all year, which has effect in young guys. Especially when they do come up and have to ride the pine for extended periods behind Molina and Wieters. It's same thing that happened to Kelly. Once he got to AZ and got consistent ABs without having to worry about being sent back, he took off... Herrera and Montero I have in that next tier below. I think they both have potential to be at the tier above, but need to see more or more consistency in Montero's case... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgarrett12486 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Teams that feature multiple top end starting pitchers are still the end all/be all in the playoffs... Just look at the last couple world series winners... Cards need to look long and hard at this. We all know Flaherty is that type, but we're missing that co-ace... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOSteelers56 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 1 hour ago, kgarrett12486 said: Teams that feature multiple top end starting pitchers are still the end all/be all in the playoffs... Just look at the last couple world series winners... Cards need to look long and hard at this. We all know Flaherty is that type, but we're missing that co-ace... I'm not sure who they could get to be that Co-Ace. I wish Reyes could get it together... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLunatic88 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 49 minutes ago, MOSteelers56 said: I'm not sure who they could get to be that Co-Ace. I wish Reyes could get it together... Hes on the roster, but he wanted to be a Reliever this year 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgarrett12486 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 43 minutes ago, StLunatic88 said: Hes on the roster, but he wanted to be a Reliever this year Yep, Martinez had shown that potential in the recent past, but can't rely on it coming back to fruition now... Still think he could get back there, but not putting all my eggs in that basket... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgarrett12486 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Mike Matheny hired as the Royals manager... Lol, can't wait for those I 70 series bow! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.