MOSteelers56 Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 These projected lineups are traaaaaash. The posters aren't, that's not what I'm trying to say. I just think our lineup is going to suck next year regardless of order. I'm super hopeful for the pitching and the farm system, but my optimism doesn't bleed into the lineup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOSteelers56 Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 1 minute ago, kgarrett12486 said: No doubt, we all knew he wasn't going to accept the QO. We all knew why the Cards extended it... Honestly, I didn't expect him back. I thought he could get a 2-4 year deal somewhere else and we weren't going to be in on that with Carlson waiting in the wings... My gripe is that we essentially played this perfectly in that we slapped him with the QO, then sent him to market. When the market became defined, we should've pounced. I have a hard time believing that if we offered to match that deal he wouldn't be here instead. He wanted to be here... A 1 year deal was literally the best thing for us. We keep our MOTO bat to alleviate a giant hole in the lineup we now have. We keep our OF depth for possible other moves or injuries. We keep Carlson down and manipulate his clock... I get why we want the pick, but to the extent of worsening the current roster? This team is built to contend. We're not in transition. Like @holt_bruce81pointed out, it's not like we were hurting for picks in this draft prior to this, nevermind the fact we have 3 top 60 prospects. Our farm system isn't as stacked as it's been in previous years, but it's far from barren inside the top 10. It's on par or better than what you'd expect from a team that contends and finishes more near the end of the draft yearly than closer to the beginning... I agree with a lot of this. I think the lineup is clearly missing pieces to be a contender. Also, I didn't want this to get paged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLunatic88 Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 7 minutes ago, kgarrett12486 said: My gripe is that we essentially played this perfectly in that we slapped him with the QO, then sent him to market. When the market became defined, we should've pounced. I have a hard time believing that if we offered to match that deal he wouldn't be here instead. He wanted to be here... Again, I think we are playing at something much bigger than one year of Ozuna, and if throwing out even a 1 year deal would hinder that plan, then its not worth it. If worst come to worst, We have all been ridding for our Young OF guys, usually at the expense of Fowler, but now they will be getting it. I think we can get similar total production out of our guys (O'Neill, Thomas, Edmund) than we would have had to pay $18m for. But again, I think that would have eaten into what we really want to do here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgarrett12486 Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 53 minutes ago, MOSteelers56 said: I agree with a lot of this. I think the lineup is clearly missing pieces to be a contender. Also, I didn't want this to get paged. Agreed, were basically hoping Carpenter bounces back, Dejong takes another step, Fowler doesn't decline from his 2019 level, Bader takes huge step, young platoon of LFs match Ozuna production and Molina doesn't fall off in his twilight... Too many hopes for me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holt_bruce81 Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 Do you guys still think we’re in on Arenado? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLunatic88 Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 1 hour ago, MOSteelers56 said: These projected lineups are traaaaaash. The posters aren't, that's not what I'm trying to say. I just think our lineup is going to suck next year regardless of order. I'm super hopeful for the pitching and the farm system, but my optimism doesn't bleed into the lineup. I think you are overreacting just a bit. The fact that we have Goldschmidt, DeJong, Molina, and yes Ill admit it here even Fowler, means our lineup wont be Trash. Id say we are currently looking at the lower part of the Top half of the league. And yes, youre counting on Carp to not be as actual Trash as he was last year, and one of the OF Prospects to take a step, but I think Wong showed that he is an impact bat, and should be a guy we can count on going forward. We were without Ozuna for 20% of the games last year, and he was only really good for just over half the time he was in there. Its not like we are losing Albert Pujols in his prime here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLunatic88 Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 23 minutes ago, holt_bruce81 said: Do you guys still think we’re in on Arenado? Very much so. And I think we are currently their only real suitor at this point. Deal might not get dont till in season, but I think he ends up here for a very fair deal with his Opt-out clause hanging over any deal they make Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holt_bruce81 Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 2 minutes ago, StLunatic88 said: Very much so. And I think we are currently their only real suitor at this point. Deal might not get dont till in season, but I think he ends up here for a very fair deal with his Opt-out clause hanging over any deal they make Yeah seems like the Cardinals are just waiting it out. Arenado voicing his frustration with the Rockies organization definitely helps the Cardinals in negotiations with Colorado. Wonder if we get get him for a package that has Knizner-Hudson as the centerpiece. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLunatic88 Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 38 minutes ago, holt_bruce81 said: Yeah seems like the Cardinals are just waiting it out. Arenado voicing his frustration with the Rockies organization definitely helps the Cardinals in negotiations with Colorado. I have heard that there is possibly already a framework in place, but they are working out timing because the Rox want to save face and not make it look like they are pulling a Marlins. Which is where the Arenado comments came from the other day, make it look like both sides are deciding that its time to mutually part ways and do what is best for both. Is that true? I dont know, but we all know that these things are all orchestrated these days. 40 minutes ago, holt_bruce81 said: Wonder if we get get him for a package that has Knizner-Hudson as the centerpiece. Ive heard the basis of the deal is Hudson/Gorman with a few other pieces still being discussed, and the level of those depend on if/how much money the Rox will be taking back form us. Id imagine if they are taking one contract back, that Knizer would also be in play to sweeten the pot with a final B/C level prospect Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted January 23, 2020 Author Share Posted January 23, 2020 7 hours ago, kgarrett12486 said: My gripe is that we essentially played this perfectly in that we slapped him with the QO, then sent him to market. When the market became defined, we should've pounced. I have a hard time believing that if we offered to match that deal he wouldn't be here instead. He wanted to be here... A 1 year deal was literally the best thing for us. We keep our MOTO bat to alleviate a giant hole in the lineup we now have. We keep our OF depth for possible other moves or injuries. We keep Carlson down and manipulate his clock... I get why we want the pick, but to the extent of worsening the current roster? This team is built to contend. We're not in transition. Like @holt_bruce81pointed out, it's not like we were hurting for picks in this draft prior to this, nevermind the fact we have 3 top 60 prospects. Our farm system isn't as stacked as it's been in previous years, but it's far from barren inside the top 10. It's on par or better than what you'd expect from a team that contends and finishes more near the end of the draft yearly than closer to the beginning... We offered the QO. He turned it down. This isn't a situation where they pulled back their QO. I'd imagine the Cardinals had a fairly similar offer on the table. This is more about Ozuna wanting a bite at FA without having the QO attached to him. At that point, the highest bidder won. Up until now, the only teams who were really linked to Ozuna were the Cardinals and the Rangers. And somehow the Braves ended up signing him outright. That means that either the Cardinals offer wasn't very good (i.e. several million less than what the Braves offered) OR there's another factor. My guess is the latter. I think Ozuna felt he deserved a longterm extension, and the Cardinals weren't interested in overpaying what the market dictated he was due. Last year, Ozuna was 34th in wRC+ amongst OFers. That's not great. He's been a roughly ~110 wRC+ for the last four years with the exception of 2017, which was clearly an anomaly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted January 23, 2020 Author Share Posted January 23, 2020 7 hours ago, MOSteelers56 said: I agree with a lot of this. I think the lineup is clearly missing pieces to be a contender. Also, I didn't want this to get paged. Ozuna isn't a difference maker by any means. I get wanting him back on a 1 year deal, but does Ozuna really make that big of a difference for the Cardinals? I don't think so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted January 23, 2020 Author Share Posted January 23, 2020 6 hours ago, holt_bruce81 said: Do you guys still think we’re in on Arenado? Yes and no. I don't think the Rockies are interested in coming down off their asking price. I'd imagine they'd want at least two of Gorman, Liberatore, and Knizner along with MLB-ready SP (i.e. Dakota Hudson). And the Cardinals aren't willing to give up that much. And they'd want some salary relief from Colorado. I think opportunistic is the best way to describe this situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holt_bruce81 Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 Mark Saxon voting Visquel for the HOF and not Scott Rolen is laughable. But, Saxon is an idiot so it's to be expected. And it really shows you what kind of old school mentality a lot of these voters still have. Time for a change maybe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgarrett12486 Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 14 hours ago, CWood21 said: Ozuna isn't a difference maker by any means. I get wanting him back on a 1 year deal, but does Ozuna really make that big of a difference for the Cardinals? I don't think so. He does when your OF consists of a declining complimentary piece in Fowler, a young CF who got worse at the plat in his follow-up campaign and internal OF options of Lane Thomas coming off an injury and small sample size and Tyler O'Neill who's shown the ceiling of a 4th OF in his opportunities.... His presence in the lineup is missed and I think will continue to be well into this season... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOSteelers56 Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 I can see the argument of wanting to see what our young guys have. Plus we have Edman that can play LF too. I’m kind of coming off my initial view of losing Ozuna. I’d also like to see if TON can stay healthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.