The STL Cardinals Thread - Welcome to STL JJ!

[ttitansfan4life]

Eh pick. Hamstring injury is scary. Very good bat with limited power. Assuming he’ll be moving to 2B or 3B with Winn not going anywhere anytime soon.

Edited July 14 by ttitansfan4life

[MOSteelers56]

1 hour ago, StLunatic88 said:

Walker, Herera, McGreavy++ for Robert & Fedde? Does that get us close?

I think that’s a pretty good return for the Sox. Somebody might blow them away with an offer, though. 

[holt_bruce81]

I mean Wetherholt was best case scenario right? Sure an elite arm would have been lots of fun, but JJ is a top 3 talent in this draft. That’s a legit 70 hit tool. I think He jumps Hence as the #1 prospect in our system and is a top 40 prospect in all of baseball. 

Im interested to see where they start him at. Im guessing High-A as a SS. 

[kgarrett12486]

13 hours ago, ttitansfan4life said:

Eh pick. Hamstring injury is scary. Very good bat with limited power. Assuming he’ll be moving to 2B or 3B with Winn not going anywhere anytime soon.

Curious who did you want at #7 given how the board fell if you think this was an "Eh" pick. This was a homerun pick by us. He's got elite contact skills, doesn't strike out at all, the best piutch recognition in the whole class, hits the ball with authority to all areas of the field (is a doubles machine) and has power to hit around 20 HRs in big leagues. Oh and he's a legit base stealing threat. The only question with him is the arm strength to stick at SS, but even if he moves off SS the bat is elite at 2B.

Wetherholt would not have been available if he hadn't had the hamstring injury. He was the consensus #1 pick going into the season and even with the injury, many draft analysts thought he had a chance to go #1.

Just read this sentence from one of many scouting reports echoing the below if you think he's 'Eh':

Wetherholt might be the best pure hitter in the class and there are some area scouts who think he’s the best amateur bat they’ve ever seen.

[StLunatic88]

5 hours ago, holt_bruce81 said:

Im interested to see where they start him at. Im guessing High-A as a SS. 

Feels like a good result for our highest pick in decades. I have read some blurbs about him, any idea on what his timeline is? 

Feels like alot of swagger up the middle with Winn and JJ, would be nice to add a CF for a trio of Cornerstones for the next decade

[kgarrett12486]

5 hours ago, holt_bruce81 said:

I mean Wetherholt was best case scenario right? Sure an elite arm would have been lots of fun, but JJ is a top 3 talent in this draft. That’s a legit 70 hit tool. I think He jumps Hence as the #1 prospect in our system and is a top 40 prospect in all of baseball. 

Im interested to see where they start him at. Im guessing High-A as a SS. 

100%. We couldn't have asked for a better outcome given us getting screwed by the draft lottery and landing at #7.

I'm so pumped about this pick. Flores said they believe he can stick as SS and plan to give him every chance to do so. He'll be a fast riser too. I can see him knocking on MLB door as early as next September. 

[kgarrett12486]

1 minute ago, StLunatic88 said:

Feels like a good result for our highest pick in decades. I have read some blurbs about him, any idea on what his timeline is? 

Feels like alot of swagger up the middle with Winn and JJ, would be nice to add a CF for a trio of Cornerstones for the next decade

He's finally healthy now from all reports. I'd imagine they'll be extra cautious with him in his first stint and probably see him got to high A to start. 

With how advanced he is in his hit tools, he's going to be a very quick riser. I could see him moving through AA and AAA levels next year and then be ready for a September call-up if all goes well. Probably a 2026 realistic look at making the team out of ST. 

[CWood21]

2 hours ago, kgarrett12486 said:

Curious who did you want at #7 given how the board fell if you think this was an "Eh" pick. This was a homerun pick by us. He's got elite contact skills, doesn't strike out at all, the best piutch recognition in the whole class, hits the ball with authority to all areas of the field (is a doubles machine) and has power to hit around 20 HRs in big leagues. Oh and he's a legit base stealing threat. The only question with him is the arm strength to stick at SS, but even if he moves off SS the bat is elite at 2B.

Wetherholt would not have been available if he hadn't had the hamstring injury. He was the consensus #1 pick going into the season and even with the injury, many draft analysts thought he had a chance to go #1.

Just read this sentence from one of many scouting reports echoing the below if you think he's 'Eh':

Wetherholt might be the best pure hitter in the class and there are some area scouts who think he’s the best amateur bat they’ve ever seen.

I mean, I wouldn't say it was an "eh pick" but I also wouldn't say it was some slam dunk pick either.  There really wasn't a consensus at the top of the draft, and it was littered with guys at non-premium positions.   He's a 2B though.  They'll likely run him out at shortstop unless he shows he can't.  But he's a future partner with Masyn Winn potentially.

[CWood21]

2 hours ago, kgarrett12486 said:

He's finally healthy now from all reports. I'd imagine they'll be extra cautious with him in his first stint and probably see him got to high A to start. 

With how advanced he is in his hit tools, he's going to be a very quick riser. I could see him moving through AA and AAA levels next year and then be ready for a September call-up if all goes well. Probably a 2026 realistic look at making the team out of ST. 

I'd suspect they're going to be rather cautious with him.  At least until they're sure he's past the hamstring injury.

[kgarrett12486]

1 hour ago, CWood21 said:

I mean, I wouldn't say it was an "eh pick" but I also wouldn't say it was some slam dunk pick either.  There really wasn't a consensus at the top of the draft, and it was littered with guys at non-premium positions.   He's a 2B though.  They'll likely run him out at shortstop unless he shows he can't.  But he's a future partner with Masyn Winn potentially.

I had Wetherholt as the 4th best player in this draft, so the fact that we got him at our pick is a big win for this organization. 

If all things go according to plan, then you have an elite defensive SS in Wynn and a plus-plus defender at 2B, who also has the position versatility to play SS and 3B as well.

He was literally the best case scenario outside of Burns, Smith or Condon falling to us. I'd have taken him over the #1 pick in Bazanna, as I think he's on the same exact level of hitter type in Bazanna (with less power), but offers more as a complete player because of his defense and ability to swipe bases. 

 

[kgarrett12486]

1 hour ago, CWood21 said:

I'd suspect they're going to be rather cautious with him.  At least until they're sure he's past the hamstring injury.

Yah, they 100% will. I will say, I was surprised that Flores came out and said he's healthy now and they already plan to play him at SS this year, so that tells me they're not going to have too much reigns on him unless there is an issue pop up.

[MOSteelers56]

I’ve heard people comping him to Bregman. That sounds good to me. If he’s a fast mover, he could push Gorman into a corner IF spot or to DH. 

[kgarrett12486]

On 7/14/2024 at 2:34 PM, StLunatic88 said:

Let me start with this; I will be happy if Jordan Walker is part of the future of the Cardinals. Although I think expectations of him to be anything close to Matt Holliday are a pipe dream at this point. Holliday didn’t hit as low as Walker last year for the first decade of his career. (Although I’ll say it again, he should be moved to LF for sure) Jordan would need to have a major jump on the horizon, but in reality he is already going the wrong direction this season. I’d currently hope we get something between Stephen Piscotty and Randal Grichuk, which would be a valuable player, but not some star, and absolutely a disappointment for what Walker has been touted as.

But with that being said (and that being a real possibility of an outcome for him) I would also be completely fine shipping him off for a Legitimate bat at a premium position and years of control left. I don’t buy into the “baseball needs toget out of the organization”, but you have to admit we have been better at trading for the main lineup pieces, than cultivating them on our own. Which is a completely fair way to build a roster.

Im talking about a guy like Luis Robert, a guy I would have already shipped Walker off for had he not be banged up so much. But then in reality, would Walker even be enough to get that done if Robert didn’t have some buyer beware stickers on him? Feels like you have to take the chance at some point. We passed on that opportunity with Soto, which I agreed with at the time, and still think it was the right path with what we knew at the time. But it feels like the Cardinal Organization and especially its fans try to cling on to “our guys” way longer than most and then we are selling at rock bottom value lately. (Since basically Brett Wallace)

To me, the only guy I believe is locked in as a future cornerstone to this franchise is Masyn Winn. That’s it. I’d hope that Tink Hence will be added to him soon enough, but I don’t believe we can count on Gorman or Walker anymore. And while Donovan is probably around for a while, he’s not a cornerstone.

i would send Walker to the Sox for Robert tomorrow. I’d take the chances that A) Robert stays healthy enough and we have a decent shot to re-sign him and B) that Walker isn’t going to be some player that we completely regret trading away. I’d probably try to  get the pitcher Fedde in that deal too, that way we would be getting 3+ (Robert) and 1+ seasons of value/production at what would likely be under market value in return for Walker (plus the rest of the package)

I 100% think Jordan Walker will be a part of this franchise moving forward. They're not giving up on him being a huge part of their future plans (and rightfully so), nor will they be trading him. They've never shown the propoensity to do that with their less touted prospects. They're certainly not going to do it with their most prized one in decades. I think we're forgetting here that Jordan Walker is only 22 years old (he's only 4 months older than JJ Wetherholt). It's not like we're talking about a 25 year old who got sent back to AAA and has still struggled to produce consistently at that level this year. There is still plenty of runway here for this to turn around. Like I said, I'd be more worried about him long-term if I hadn't already seen him make the adjustment at the MLB level last year and be a very productive hitter the 2nd half. It's not even like he's the only highly touted prospect that has struggled in 2023. You're seeing quite a few across MLB that have had immense regression this season. 

On the Holliday front, my main point was that his approach to hitting more mirrors Holliday's game than other typical sluggers. With that said though, I still think he has the talent to reach that level and be that type of impact hitter consistently in the future. He was nearly 25% above league average as a rookie last year. That was already at levels of prime Stephon Piscotty (his best year was 30% above, but consistently was 13-20% above during his prime) and Walker's got way more growth to come IMO. Also, going back to Holliday, he was actually utilized almost exactly like Walker down in the line-up in his rookie year. He only had (1) game that entire season he hit in the 5th spot. Every other game he hit 6th or 7th. Walker hit in the 5th spot (13) times, with majority of time in the 6th and 7th spots in 2023.  

I'm not going to sit here and pretend that Walker should be untouchable, as I don't believe in that. For example,  if the White Sox came to me and said we'll give you Garrett Crochet for Walker right now, I'd pull that trigger in a heartbeat. Or hell, even like you said if they wanted to give me Robert for Walker. Outside of that kind of level of a transaction though, I'm not shipping him off. With that said, I don't see any chance in hell the Cardinals go after Robert. 

There is no chance this team doesn't have Jordan Walker factored in as a COF and key cog in their line-up in 2025 and beyond. He's the only power RHH bat they have developed in the system. I mean, imagine if they gave up on Burleson after his 2023 and I don't think any of us saw this upside with him. 

[CWood21]

On 7/15/2024 at 12:20 PM, MOSteelers56 said:

I’ve heard people comping him to Bregman. That sounds good to me. If he’s a fast mover, he could push Gorman into a corner IF spot or to DH. 

Not totally sure I see that comparison.  To me, he's a 2B who can play SS for a period of time where as Bregman is a 3B who can play SS if needed.  Also, feels like Bregman had more power than Wetherholt does.  I mean, it's not a terrible comparison by any means, but it would be nice that our 2B/SS duo would be set for a while.

[kgarrett12486]

I don't know if anyone saw this trade happen the other day, but this is a big foreshadowing event for the deadline. The Royals had to give up a former 2nd round pick (and a top 5 player in their system) and a 2025 comp balance pick for a pretty good RP, but not an elite one and he has struggled this season.

That is a high high price and worries me for the deadline.